RUMCars Forum

General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: robadob on December 06, 2005, 07:22:39 PM

Title: FLIPPERS
Post by: robadob on December 06, 2005, 07:22:39 PM
HI. Has anyone out there come across any Flipper microcars made by SEAB in France ? I know of Jean's Flipper I, my Flipper 2 and Flipper Donky. There is also a Flipper 2 in a dealers hands, but is there any more out there ?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: darrg on December 14, 2005, 10:12:07 AM
If all goes according to plan, there should now follow a picture of rob's Flipper ...

(http://www.rumcars.org/images/x-flipper.jpg)
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Bob Purton on December 19, 2005, 11:05:26 PM
Thats a great flipper. Are there any more nice french cars out there ,I especially love the 1950s ones. Here is a picture of my inter 1954 partly restored.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 28, 2011, 10:04:40 AM
HI. Has anyone out there come across any Flipper microcars made by SEAB in France ? I know of Jean's Flipper I, my Flipper 2 and Flipper Donky. There is also a Flipper 2 in a dealers hands, but is there any more out there ?

My Flipper has just arrived from France.  So how many in England now?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Jean on March 28, 2011, 06:03:54 PM
If all Flipper owners put their vehicles on the Register of Unusual Microcars (or any other unusual Microcars for that matter) we would be able to give  out those sort of statistics - sadly many  people for reasons known only to themselves don't register their cars with us. There are of course other advantages, we can introduce owners of like cars to each other (in the strictest of confidence of course), we can help in getting vehicles registered with the DVLA, etc., etc.  So come on 'Iisetta Owner' get your car in the system.   Jean
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 28, 2011, 06:26:13 PM
I beat you to it this time Jean and it is now registered with Alastair.
I need to have a look at your Flipper (or one nearer to Suffolk?) at some point
There is a cable attached to the steering column which seems to operate the 2nd gear.
There is nothing attached to the end of my cable but a pair of Mole grips does the trick and gets the second gear clutch to engage once the car is in full swing.
I would like to find out what is on the end of this cable on other Flippers? - photo perhaps.
I thought the two gears (using two centrifugal clutches) were supposed to be automatic - perhaps my car has been modified.

All the best.
Barry
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Rob Dobie on March 28, 2011, 09:38:01 PM
Hello Barry,
Here is a picture of Jean's Flipper 1 along with my Flipper 11 and Donky in my garden back in 2005 when I owned my two. I managed to get Jean's car running for the School House Farm open day.
A far as I know there are now only two Flipper 1's, two Flipper 2's and just the one Donky in UK.
Jean's Flipper is automatic like the other two in the picture, as far as I can remember a cable went to a lever on the steering column that changes forward motion to reverse.
  
 
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 28, 2011, 09:51:34 PM
Hello Barry,
Here is a picture of Jean's Flipper 1 along with my Flipper 11 and Donky in my garden back in 2005 when I managed to get Jean's car running for the School House Farm open day.
A far as I know there are now only two Flipper 1's, two Flipper 2's and just the one Donky in UK.
Jean's Flipper is automatic like the other two in the picture, as far as I can remember a cable went to a lever on the steering column that changes forward motion to reverse.
 
 
Great to see all three together Rob.  I dont think your ones are going to help me much as I think they use Motobecane engines.  I will have to try to have a look at Jeans to see how the gear change is assisted on the Sachs engine.  Its good to know that there are some more of these in England.  I was surprised at its speed around the garden.  I wonder if it is going to be possible to get it registered in England?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on March 29, 2011, 08:26:26 AM
Martin's, and then my, new Flipper II attracted little interest when marketed and ended up heading to Dorset to be turned into an electric powered vehicle. Seemed a sad way to treat a minter but then if no one wants to buy what had to be the best example what do you do? If it ever did get converted I do not know. Someone told me it was re united with the Donkey which was originally with the importer as well. I hope so as Martin was a nit not to buy all the stuff in the first place! He then prevaricated so I could not buy the Donkey which was gone by the time I had the info. The Donkey would have suited my purpose much better, indeed it would Martin's. Hey Ho, you cannot have everything though I do seem to act a bit like a black hole with cars accreting even as I try and get less. Another 6 last week for 2 out.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 29, 2011, 09:12:38 AM
Hello Barry,
Here is a picture of Jean's Flipper 1 along with my Flipper 11 and Donky in my garden back in 2005 when I owned my two. I managed to get Jean's car running for the School House Farm open day.
A far as I know there are now only two Flipper 1's, two Flipper 2's and just the one Donky in UK.
Jean's Flipper is automatic like the other two in the picture, as far as I can remember a cable went to a lever on the steering column that changes forward motion to reverse.
  
 
The cable on the steering column definatel does not select reverse - It might on the flipper II.  On my Flipper I, you just rotate the whole engine including the front wheels so they point backwards.  Interesting when you can't quite remember where the wheels are pointing but a good turning circle. 
Pulling the end of the cable seems to urge the second gear clutch into action - sort of semi automatic.  I was hoping to see what the set-up is like on a Flipper I 'with a lever' before taking the primary drive off for further investgation.  I wondered if the lever was used for adjustment to determine when the second clutch came in, rather than a specific gear shift.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 29, 2011, 09:26:44 AM
Martin's, and then my, new Flipper II attracted little interest when marketed and ended up heading to Dorset to be turned into an electric powered vehicle. Seemed a sad way to treat a minter but then if no one wants to buy what had to be the best example what do you do? If it ever did get converted I do not know. Someone told me it was re united with the Donkey which was originally with the importer as well. I hope so as Martin was a nit not to buy all the stuff in the first place! He then prevaricated so I could not buy the Donkey which was gone by the time I had the info. The Donkey would have suited my purpose much better, indeed it would Martin's. Hey Ho, you cannot have everything though I do seem to act a bit like a black hole with cars accreting even as I try and get less. Another 6 last week for 2 out.
Forgive me Al but I don't know all the names.  Where does Martin fit?  Any pictures of your Flipper II would be interesting, I am at vividimage@btconnect.com 
No further news on the one that was to become electric?  Who is the importer?  Where does that leave all the cars now - It seems that there is one at Jeans for sure.
It looks fairly easy to fit an 'electric assist' motor to the old peddle cog on the back wheel - this would be interesting.  Having taken it up to 40km/h, Im not sure that I would want to go much above 30mph though.
I can understand why people don't show much interest in these Sans Permis cars but once you see what they were trying to achieve they do have a certain attraction.
My cars and bikes and scooters are just for my personal enjoyment so I don't worry too much about resale value.  I hardly ever sell anything.  As an expert, what values do you put on the Flippers that you have seen bought and sold?
All information on Flippers from any source would be interesting to me.   

All the best
Barry
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Rob Dobie on March 29, 2011, 10:28:38 AM
Have you Googled "SEAB Flipper"? I found this years ago.  http://www.microcarfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=26
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 29, 2011, 12:49:08 PM
Thanks Rob
I know of Denis at Microcarfan.  Always a good source, I found some information about my Mincat and Lawil (Willam) on his site.
Your Flippers have long gone now?  What have you got instead?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Jean on March 29, 2011, 06:25:31 PM
 I wonder if it is going to be possible to get it registered in England?
[/quote]
Barry if you make contact with Mike Shepherd (mike_microman@yahoo.com) who now deals with the DVLA on all unusual microcar matters for the Register I am sure you should be able to get it registered in England on an age related plate. Jean
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Rob Dobie on March 29, 2011, 11:20:48 PM
Thanks Rob
Your Flippers have long gone now?  What have you got instead?

All I have now is the Powabike but that is starting to play up, something going wrong in the wiring circuit. With it being an electric bike I suppose it must be!!!

Just had a tot-up of the threewheelers I've had since my first in 1964ish. Not so many as some folk have nowadays though.

Bond Mk C. Reliant Mk 2, Mk 3, Mk 6, Messerschmitt K200, Peel P50, Peel P50, AC Petite, Progress Tourette, Isetta 300, Lambretta Truck. Frisky Familly 3, Frisky Sport, Goggomobile 300, Scootacar Mk 1, Scootacar Mk 2, Flipper 11, Flipper Donky.

Below is the first Peel P50 I bought for £10. YES A TEN POUND NOTE.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 07:23:12 AM
Good luck with fixing the electric bike Rob.  Is it going to be a Sinclair next?
What a great history of Microcars - did you get to drive them all on the road?
My first was an Isetta in about 1979  ACO 333A It was perfect for the three mile journey to work and was quite an investment at £100.  I wonder where it is now.
We used to race our Isettas around Little Weatleys Farm in Rayleigh.
I sold it and another for £150 to a chap in Westcliff, because I ran out of room when I moved from the farm. 
He never collected them so I told him I would leave them in Westcliff station car park for him to collect, which I did.  I don't know if he ever did collect them but I wish I had just made some space and kept them both
Is the Peel (or any of the others) still around anywhere?
I have often thought that we should have a folder for each car on the register so that everyone can supply photos of thier cars from the their beginnings.
From new pride and joy to old wreck and back to cherrished classic (or running restoration).  I am sure we would all be happy to supply the photos.

Barry
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Peelpower on March 30, 2011, 08:16:10 AM
Hello Rob, can you remember the registration and chassis number of your former Peel  P50 shown on the photo? Would like to put these informations in to my register.
Thank you
Ferdi
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on March 30, 2011, 08:33:15 AM
Going back to the Flipper II and question. Martin is Martin MacKeever. Your story of the Isetta sounds very reminiscent of one his purchases funnily enough. He has often bought before being able to take cars, an annoying habit really. He was the guy who actually started the Isetta Owners Club but left after a year as it got to popular and organised. A rebel and what we have in common and why he is a mate of mine. Anyway a guy near Bedford imported a Flipper II and a Donkey along with a cache of spares with the intention of setting up a distributor business for the cars. It never happened and the two cars got stashed in a barn nigh on unused. Mine had, I think, 37 kilometers on the clock! The Donkey is in circulation. The car was all beige rather than with brown bits.
I believe I have a handbook for the Flipper II somewhere.

As to the Dobie collection, it is better to have owned and played with than to never have owned at all. I am not sure if he feels the same but for some cars the fact you had one is enough and unless an option came up cheap there is no great desire to repeat ownership. With microcars there are so many more to try and not the time to do so. I wonder who has driven the most differing types on the roads. Certainly will not be me but I have done a few over the years. Most were appalling machines but that is the fun.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: mharrell on March 30, 2011, 06:16:26 PM
I can understand why people don't show much interest in these Sans Permis cars but once you see what they were trying to achieve they do have a certain attraction.

No!  Don't say that in public!  Now everybody will want one.

On second thought, never mind.  I'm pretty sure that still won't happen.

Congratulations on the Flipper.  Do you have the Revue Technique for VSPs?  I don't have mine in front of me right now, but I believe it has quite a bit of useful information on the care and feeding of Flippers.  I can scan the relevant pages if you need them.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 06:57:27 PM
I can understand why people don't show much interest in these Sans Permis cars but once you see what they were trying to achieve they do have a certain attraction.

No!  Don't say that in public!  Now everybody will want one.

On second thought, never mind.  I'm pretty sure that still won't happen.

Congratulations on the Flipper.  Do you have the Revue Technique for VSPs?  I don't have mine in front of me right now, but I believe it has quite a bit of useful information on the care and feeding of Flippers.  I can scan the relevant pages if you need them.

I have RevueTechnique 'Les Voiturettes' 1984 if this is the same?  Its a great help and the exploded view of the engine showed the two clutches (just about) so I worked out how the gears are supposed to work.  But when the engine has 'Automatic' written on it, I cant quite work out why I need a cable to change to second (engage the second clutch.

Cant wait to get the Flipper out on the country roads, everyone behind will appreciate how much more you can see at 24mph.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Jean on March 30, 2011, 07:25:43 PM
I have often thought that we should have a folder for each car on the register so that everyone can supply photos of their cars from the their beginnings.
From new pride and joy to old wreck and back to cherished classic (or running restoration).  I am sure we would all be happy to supply the photos.

Barry
That is just what Alastair is attempting to do.  Another reason that cars should be put on the Register and everyone should keep the Register informed when it changes hands.  Each car Registered has its own file with its own unique number.all the cars details are entered on that file together with photographs that have been received over the years, until such time we notified the car has been scrapped.  Also recorded are the names of successive owners.  From this information which Alastair holds may be when we get our newly designed web site up and running archive pictures could be published (with the owners permission of course)  But to do this sort of thing we do need cooperation  from all the owners to keep the information updated.  Also using these statistics we are able to assist with the retention of the original numbers under the V765 scheme and dating of of cars as the DVLA accept the fact that we have been building up this vital information since 1980 when the Register was first started. Jean
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 07:33:48 PM
Going back to the Flipper II and question. Martin is Martin MacKeever. Your story of the Isetta sounds very reminiscent of one his purchases funnily enough. He has often bought before being able to take cars, an annoying habit really. He was the guy who actually started the Isetta Owners Club but left after a year as it got to popular and organised. A rebel and what we have in common and why he is a mate of mine. Anyway a guy near Bedford imported a Flipper II and a Donkey along with a cache of spares with the intention of setting up a distributor business for the cars. It never happened and the two cars got stashed in a barn nigh on unused. Mine had, I think, 37 kilometers on the clock! The Donkey is in circulation. The car was all beige rather than with brown bits.
I believe I have a handbook for the Flipper II somewhere.

As to the Dobie collection, it is better to have owned and played with than to never have owned at all. I am not sure if he feels the same but for some cars the fact you had one is enough and unless an option came up cheap there is no great desire to repeat ownership. With microcars there are so many more to try and not the time to do so. I wonder who has driven the most differing types on the roads. Certainly will not be me but I have done a few over the years. Most were appalling machines but that is the fun.

I understand why your Flipper was 'as new' now Al.  I was in the Isetta Owners Club in the late 1970's and found all of the old magazines (booklets) the other day.
So the guy in Bedford never had a Flipper I on the road in the UK?  If there was ever a registered one it would help me register my one - perhaps without seat belts, or could it fall in a different taxation class?
The Fliiper hand book would be usefull if you don't need it, Stuart Cyphus let me have a Flipper sales pamflet for two bob.

I agree that it is great to own any of these small cars.  Great satisfaction to get them working and run up and down the road.  It is still my Isetta that I really want to get back on the road properly.  My old one was still a usable vehicle in trafic and behaved on the road quite well, we shall see.  I had a Heinkel and it was awfull - no power just revs, suicide gears and certain death brakes.  
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 07:49:46 PM
I have often thought that we should have a folder for each car on the register so that everyone can supply photos of their cars from the their beginnings.
From new pride and joy to old wreck and back to cherished classic (or running restoration).  I am sure we would all be happy to supply the photos.

Barry
That is just what Alastair is attempting to do.  Another reason that cars should be put on the Register and everyone should keep the Register informed when it changes hands.  Each car Registered has its own file with its own unique number.all the cars details are entered on that file together with photographs that have been received over the years, until such time we notified the car has been scrapped.  Also recorded are the names of successive owners.  From this information which Alastair holds may be when we get our newly designed web site up and running archive pictures could be published (with the owners permission of course)  But to do this sort of thing we do need cooperation  from all the owners to keep the information updated.  Also using these statistics we are able to assist with the retention of the original numbers under the V765 scheme and dating of of cars as the DVLA accept the fact that we have been building up this vital information since 1980 when the Register was first started. Jean

I understand what you are doing with the register Jean and it's great. I was thinking along the lines of your future plans.  A place on the website where photos can be deposited by anyone who finds or has a picture of a microcar.  The photos deposited would be copyright free and available to anyone (within Rumcars?) who wanted to see them.  All filed under the registration number.  I would not be too concerned about only keeping the photos of surviving cars.  It was great to see the picture of Robs Peel, there are probably many photos of it out there somewher showing its history.  It could be easy to open a 'Drop-box' account and share it with all members for the process to begin.  It would be the people who supply the photos that would do the work uploading to the Drop-Box account......  Lots of ideas, I know, but time is always a problem.

Regards
Barry
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: mharrell on March 30, 2011, 08:25:09 PM
I have RevueTechnique 'Les Voiturettes' 1984 if this is the same?

That's it.  I've found it to be the perfect reference manual in that (1) I don't speak French and (2) it covers nearly every voiturette of that era except mine, thereby rendering point (1) irrelevant.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 08:58:51 PM
What is your car.
The manual has been very good for me with a JS4 Ligier, Acoma Super Comtesse and Flipper all covered.  I do still need to find out as much as possible about my Minicat though.
I would recommend it to all Sans Permis 50cc owners and it's pretty good for the moped crew as well.
I can't read the French text but it looks impressive when I am concentrating on it, I've always preferred books with lots of pictures anyway!
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: mharrell on March 30, 2011, 09:23:13 PM
What is your car.

It's the KV Mini 1 which I use as my avatar.  I've got two, the '80 shown and a '78 for parts.  The Revue Technique mentions KV/KVS in the back among its list of manufacturers but doesn't cover any of their products.  Ah, well.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Rob Dobie on March 30, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
My Donky was the other Flipper bought into UK by "the guy in Bedford". As new, 24k. on speedo.  After ringing VOSA I was told it would be classed as a Quad. Took it on a trailer to a MOT garage that tested bikes, three-wheelers, cars etc. After having a quick look the owner said it could be tested and if it didn't fit onto the lift he would get four of his testers to lift it up for a deco underneath. I asked about seatbelts and he said "as it wasn't fitted with belts when new (1982) it dosen't need them now (2004). The yellow headlights were ok too. The only thing he wanted was a rear brake light fitted. Never did get it done though.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 09:45:22 PM
What is your car.

It's the KV Mini 1 which I use as my avatar.  I've got two, the '80 shown and a '78 for parts.  The Revue Technique mentions KV/KVS in the back among its list of manufacturers but doesn't cover any of their products.  Ah, well.

Post a bigger photo of it, I am always interested, or send to: vividimage@btconnect.com
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 30, 2011, 09:50:39 PM
My Donky was the other Flipper bought into UK by "the guy in Bedford". As new, 24k. on speedo.  After ringing VOSA I was told it would be classed as a Quad. Took it on a trailer to a MOT garage that tested bikes, three-wheelers, cars etc. After having a quick look the owner said it could be tested and if it didn't fit onto the lift he would get four of his testers to lift it up for a deco underneath. I asked about seatbelts and he said "as it wasn't fitted with belts when new (1982) it dosen't need them now (2004). The yellow headlights were ok too. The only thing he wanted was a rear brake light fitted. Never did get it done though.
I suppose the Donky is more like a proper car with a wheel on each corner.  I wonder what they would make of the turning front wheels and engine, close together - a trike perhaps.  The quad catagory sounds good.  When I talked to the MOT people about my Lawil 250cc they said it would definately be class 4 and would need seat belts even though it was 1979 (ish).
Where is the Donky now?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Rob Dobie on March 30, 2011, 09:54:35 PM
Hello Rob, can you remember the registration and chassis number of your former Peel  P50 shown on the photo? Would like to put these informations in to my register.
Thank you
Ferdi

Hello Ferdi,
The picture of the Peel P50 with a skinny me fiddling with the wheel of is MHX 90C before I sprayed it Jaguar Regency Red. Can't remember the chassis number, could have been D.506
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: mharrell on March 30, 2011, 11:38:37 PM
Post a bigger photo of it, I am always interested....

Only too happy to oblige!  It's this one:

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/by_design/0911_1980_kv_mini_1_design_analysis/index.html (http://www.automobilemag.com/features/by_design/0911_1980_kv_mini_1_design_analysis/index.html)

http://clunkbucket.com/victoire-de-citrons/ (http://clunkbucket.com/victoire-de-citrons/)

If you can get past the introductory sound track, here's a test-drive video put together by the guy who runs the Great Pacific Northwest Microcar/Minicar Extravaganza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7CJ3uNVBI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7CJ3uNVBI)
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Peelpower on March 31, 2011, 12:36:55 AM
Hello Rob, thank you for your reply. Yes, you are right. It is D 506

Regards

Ferdi
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on March 31, 2011, 10:12:10 AM
I understand why your Flipper was 'as new' now Al.  I was in the Isetta Owners Club in the late 1970's and found all of the old magazines (booklets) the other day.
So the guy in Bedford never had a Flipper I on the road in the UK?  If there was ever a registered one it would help me register my one - perhaps without seat belts, or could it fall in a different taxation class?
The Fliiper hand book would be usefull if you don't need it, Stuart Cyphus let me have a Flipper sales pamflet for two bob.

I agree that it is great to own any of these small cars.  Great satisfaction to get them working and run up and down the road.  It is still my Isetta that I really want to get back on the road properly.  My old one was still a usable vehicle in trafic and behaved on the road quite well, we shall see.  I had a Heinkel and it was awfull - no power just revs, suicide gears and certain death brakes.  

No I do not think he had a Flipper I. I worked out how to get a registration at the time but the rules have changed again since. It is unfortunate the Historic catorgary is not rolling on as it would make this a lot simpler. As a new car I saw it as a collectors item though. I am keeping the handbook but I could make a copy/scan of it for those in need.

Heinkels actually out perform Isettas. You must have had a bad one. Then again each to his style of motoring.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on March 31, 2011, 10:53:38 AM
Thanks Rob
I know of Denis at Microcarfan.  Always a good source, I found some information about my Mincat and Lawil (Willam) on his site.
Your Flippers have long gone now?  What have you got instead?

I note you have and there was talk of Lawil (Willam). I have one of the Crayford versions that were made. I was told that only four are about. On the basis this is registered and British it should be possible to refer DVLA to the type when attempting to register a Lawil since in some ways it is the same thing. It might avoid silly nonesense because it does not fit in the proscribed pigeon holes that they attempt to put vehicles into. It would avoid the dreaded Q plate for instance.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on March 31, 2011, 05:59:57 PM
This is really good news Al.  I have a road test of the Crayford car.  I do need to find out when my car was made so that I can get an age related plate, it looks like about 1979 / 1980. The problem is that the chassis plate is not normal 'Lawil' in design, the numbers do match the body stampings though.  It may have been one of the last cars off of the production line or made from spares.  I was hoping to find a chassis plate from a real Lawil (not a Willam) so that I could check chassis numbers and see if an age can be determined.  From all of the pictures of chassis plates I have managed to collect, I reckon your Jeep will have a different series of numbers to my hard-top Berlina.  A picture of your chassis plate would be good.
A copy of your V5 would help me with the fine details and taxation class  for the DVLA and proove to them that it is a known type of car.

I hope we can talk further on this one because my Lawil is a usable car and it would be great to get it on the road.


Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on April 01, 2011, 09:45:13 AM
Post a bigger photo of it, I am always interested....

Only too happy to oblige!  It's this one:

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/by_design/0911_1980_kv_mini_1_design_analysis/index.html (http://www.automobilemag.com/features/by_design/0911_1980_kv_mini_1_design_analysis/index.html)

http://clunkbucket.com/victoire-de-citrons/ (http://clunkbucket.com/victoire-de-citrons/)

If you can get past the introductory sound track, here's a test-drive video put together by the guy who runs the Great Pacific Northwest Microcar/Minicar Extravaganza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7CJ3uNVBI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP7CJ3uNVBI)


Thanks for the links Michael. A truely fantasic car and so good that you have the 125cc engine although I can see that spares are going to be an issue if anything does go wrong.  I am surprised they made 2,000 of these, there must be some more about somewhere.
I will definately look out for one for my small collection, I had not seen one of these before.  The drive to the back wheels is a great design.  Who else would have put that into production?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on April 01, 2011, 11:32:29 AM
A picture of your chassis plate would be good.
A copy of your V5 would help me with the fine details and taxation class  for the DVLA and proove to them that it is a known type of car.

I hope we can talk further on this one because my Lawil is a usable car and it would be great to get it on the road.

Slight prob. THe car is stored 200 miles away at the moment and I await the V5. But yes in principle I can do that, but not immedately.

Was the Flipper I a flop? Cleared out as a Flip flop for the II. A donkey Flip flop is rare and the belts did not keep the hooves in hence MOT probs. Why be a Flipper flopper with one Flipper when you can Flip a flopped Flipper flopper too! Thanks to TicTac there. This could be the start of considerable silliness.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on April 01, 2011, 12:30:04 PM
If you could put it on your 'to-do' list that wouldl be fine.
The rest - I think I know what you mean and hope the men in white coats are not part of Rumcars for your sake.
Sent some scans by email and hope you received them, if not, give me a good email address.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: DrewS on April 01, 2011, 01:13:22 PM
Interestingly there is a Crayford William lawil for sale through the infamous dezer collection ( of $15k poo brown reliant Robin fame) in the good ol' us of a ;

http://www.dezercollection.com/1971-crayford-william-lawil-jeep--c-285.htm

Interestingly they also have a Trojan mini motor for sale at $20k and yet one went on uk eBay for £445 a matter of weeks ago.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on April 01, 2011, 01:27:59 PM
Interesting.  It looks as good as new (apart from years of wear and a ripped seat).
I suppose they have high overheads and full dealer facilities to cover?
My Lawil is a Berlina so is probably not as sought after?

Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Bob Purton on April 01, 2011, 01:55:50 PM
$4,000 doesnt sound too bad for these people.  $20,000 is a joke for a minimotor though, mind you so is £450!  They change hands for a whole lot less in cyclemotor circles.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on April 02, 2011, 09:16:52 AM
I almost think $4,000 is a typo. These Crayford versions have changed hands for £5-6k before now. Maybe the is a realisation that they are associated to Lawil and thus not quite as desirable a rarity as was thought by the collectors. That said the Crayford is different. Or the reverse, and the Geezer Collection have valued it as a Lawil not a Crayford being ignorant of the difference, which will be amusing.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on April 02, 2011, 09:29:05 AM
I assume you mean that there are a few real Crayford cars that were imported to England.  All the other 250cc cars are Lawil?  (Willam being 125cc and mainly in France?). Or, is there a special difference with the Crayford cars - please let me know.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: richard on April 02, 2011, 10:08:04 AM
am i the only one that has no idea what a donkey is or am i just being an ass , and was it so called by the factory or the owners ?
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on April 02, 2011, 11:52:28 AM
All is revealed by Denis

http://www.microcarfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=26


Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on April 03, 2011, 07:52:22 AM
I assume you mean that there are a few real Crayford cars that were imported to England.  All the other 250cc cars are Lawil?  (Willam being 125cc and mainly in France?). Or, is there a special difference with the Crayford cars - please let me know.

Crayford was assembled here and is a seperate entity. Never sat down to list what was different but I seem to recall being told quite a bit. I have not owned a Lawil, though I have got several running for chums who have got them. No doubt someone has bumpf on them both.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: richard on April 03, 2011, 04:29:34 PM
ah ! merci boucoup monsieur Isetta owner l. so am i clear now the donky is the mark E or  ;D
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on April 04, 2011, 10:43:45 AM
ah ! merci boucoup monsieur Isetta owner l. so am i clear now the donky is the mark E or  ;D

Bond should have called the two seat version of the Mark E the Pup.......
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: richard on April 04, 2011, 10:49:33 AM
or the popemobile the monk ........
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Peelpower on April 05, 2011, 12:04:59 AM
or the popemobile the monk ........

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on April 05, 2011, 07:45:47 AM
As opposed to the Wynfordmobile (Messerschmitt religious leader, well which other marque club together to own a chapel?) called the Mink and my latest special called the Mank created to compete directly to the Mark E Pup.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on May 26, 2011, 12:10:19 PM
A picture of your chassis plate would be good.
A copy of your V5 would help me with the fine details and taxation class  for the DVLA and proove to them that it is a known type of car.

I hope we can talk further on this one because my Lawil is a usable car and it would be great to get it on the road.

Slight prob. THe car is stored 200 miles away at the moment and I await the V5. But yes in principle I can do that, but not immedately.

Was the Flipper I a flop? Cleared out as a Flip flop for the II. A donkey Flip flop is rare and the belts did not keep the hooves in hence MOT probs. Why be a Flipper flopper with one Flipper when you can Flip a flopped Flipper flopper too! Thanks to TicTac there. This could be the start of considerable silliness.

Just a reminder that if you could still copy or let me have details of the V5 it would be a great help.  Regards
Barry
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on May 26, 2011, 01:07:53 PM
My scanner has bust. I had intended to create a digital version for repeat transmission. I will see if chum can do it, might end up as a disc.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on May 26, 2011, 03:10:16 PM
Whatever you can do would be a great help.
Did you receive the Crayford Willam  (William) report that I sent via email - if not give me a current email address and I will send again.. 
All the best
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on May 27, 2011, 09:34:04 AM
Whatever you can do would be a great help.
Did you receive the Crayford Willam  (William) report that I sent via email - if not give me a current email address and I will send again.. 
All the best

I now have an A3 scanner so happy to help with those larger pages if required.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on June 01, 2011, 08:42:28 AM
Sorry my search thingy did not pick up on those last two messages.

No I do not recall a Crayford email but it depends when it was sent as I have converted to LInux systems to avoid spam and virus. In doing so some coms were missed. You can try alanbubblecars@hotmail.com. I have yet to collect the car from remote storage but it will be interesting to see if it matches its billing and the info.
I will see if Stuart wants to scan the booklet as no doubt he will add it to his collection in the process.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Barry on June 01, 2011, 09:05:47 AM
Sent again.
That is the same email address I used last time.  Let me know when / if received.
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Denis on June 18, 2011, 03:28:53 PM
DONKY :
Sticker seen at the back of a Tomcar fram :
(http://D:\Mes Documents\donky.JPG)
Title: Re: FLIPPERS
Post by: Big Al on June 19, 2011, 09:46:50 AM
Crayford has finely made it back with the Nose Job and some other naughty bits. However no paperwork as yet. The logistics became a rush as storage became lost. Likewise Bath direction store is now being emptied prior to being re let so I am coming under pressure on storage in Oxfordshire and lots of work sorting stuff so I can re store in a more sensible order and get rid of what I no longer want to keep. Realistically I need to re-ferb a deep storage facility for the long term projects which will be a months messing around.

Given the location of the National I think it might be that I will take three oddball cars on Sunday rather than drive a micro over. The Nose Job would seem to select itself as I do not think one has been to a National. Might take the Larmer as well. Have to see. Thurs to Sat I hope to be piloting a Microcar on commuting duty.

The Crayford has thrown up an immediate problem. The bonnet catch seems to be a mystery item. I hope to give it a quick sort this week so pics might be available. Stuart remained on his throne so no scanning facility as yet. Off to Toddington over the Cotswolds now - Gloucestershire, so that will be wet then!