RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Cessna on March 16, 2008, 05:04:35 PM
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Hi All
I am new to the micro car "scene", coming from a save the planet view point. I currently run a normal car for bad weather/winter and a BMW C1 for spring/summer/autumn, however the plan isn't working as well as invisaged. A combination of mechanical problems with the C1, weather and a stupid fall plus a minor but lenghty repair has meant the C1 has only run some 15% of its planned time.
A micro car seems a good option and whilst there are modern options the cost puts me off. I wondered if the Replicar Cursor could be re-engined to provide a top speed of 40-50mph, this would be needed as my drive to work is 30miles each way.
Any thoughts?
Regards
Cessna
PS
Hoping to meet up with Bob Curl to hear more about his beautiful Dolphin eco car
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you would have to find one first lol!
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Hi
Don't know what to advise realy.
There are a few reasons why a Cursor may not be practical.
Don't come up for sale very often,
When they do they are normaly in poor condition.
If you upgrade the engine it will be a lot of work.
The rest of the car probably won't cope with the upgrade without other mods.
Only 1 seat in most cars so no passengers, and very little storage.
Very low driving position, so not the safest of microcars for regular long journeys.
Your budget will determine what is the best option for you to have as a regular usage microcar.
Fiat 126, cinquichento cheap and easy to maintain, will keep up with traffic
fiat 500, Goggomobil or Heinkel bit more money, good parts back up and can be practical to use.
Hope this helps.
have a look at the items in the found for sale section and it will give you an idea of prices and what comes up for sale.
remember if you get into microcars, join the Rumcars magazine and register your car when you get one.
best wishes
John
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Hi Cessna. Welcome to the forum. I run a microcar virgo along with my vintage microcars. Its been very reliable and ecenomical. You can buy a ligier, microcar, axiam or even a reliant ect for a few hundred pounds, I think that you will find that buying a cursor [if you can find one]and converting it to a larger capacity engine would cost you considerably more, plus the extra insurance for it being modified. You would also have to modify the brakes to cope with the extra speed. Have you ever driven a car with eight inch wheels ? Sixty odd mile a day would be very gruelling! I'm not trying to put you off because it sounds like an interesting project plus the fact that if any car ever needed an engine upgrade its the Cursor! I dont think it makes any sense from an economical point of view. These are my thought anyway. Cheers, Bob
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Hello Cessna
With your name you should fly in! Seriously, though I tend to agree with the doubts raised about a Cursor for regular commuting, they are very low and minimal. Good fun, but...The thing is that if you add more power you need to improve brakes, this adds weight and puts more strain on the structure so it becomes heavier and needs more...etc!
In many ways a modern car would be a better choice for regular long-term use, and I say this DESPITE being a big fan of classic micros. I have a 1963 Trojan which I restored from a wreck. I drive it around London and have done longish trips to Staplehurst, Medway, and Faversham, Kent, including M2 and M20. Frankly I would not want to do a longish journey every day.
A Bond Bug might be quite a good choice. Its 4 cyl engine can easily keep up with traffic and it will keep out much of the bad weather. You might need to pad up the seats, though! They are definately "classic", vaguely "micro", and can be reasonably reliable. A small Fiat could be good, or a Goggomobil. What about an old Mini?
Whatever you decide to look at I think it is fair to say that few classic micros (if any) are used nowadays for regular commuting, so you should bear in mind that the novelty might soon wear off!
Of course it depends where you live and work, what the roads are like, and most important what the traffic conditions are like. If you really want, and can afford a genuine classic micro, then for your needs it really has to be one with a good club, spares and support. For that I would suggest Heinkel-Trojan, Isetta, Messerschmitt, Goggo etc. Good luck, let us know what you deciide!
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Hi All
Many thanks for your comments, very useful!
I have a lead on a Cursor, which seems it good condition, but I'm not in a position yet to further my ideas. Fully understand the comments re upgrading brakes etc, hadn't realised its running on 8" wheels, anyone know what mechanicals were used in the build?
My run to work is mainly along country lanes and small "B" roads so being low down doesn't bother me (in fact I'm use to the motoring public trying to kill me whilst on my C1), but fuel economy is paramount. The C1 is doing around 93mpg, and I am trying to find a similar performance, in a vehicle that will be more capable to cope with wind & rain.
I looked at the Virgo & Axiam, but they are fairly expensive new and the fuel efficency isn't up to the mark, what I really need is something like the Dolphin (photo attached) but not yet into production.
Kind regards
Cessna
PS could never land the 150 at work!
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Hi again. If fuel consumtion is the main consideration then you are right, virgos, axaims ect are not exceptional. Niether are classic bubblecars, my messerscmitt only delivers about 60/70 depending on conditions. If it were not for the initial outlay I would have recomended a G-wiz , thats if you could recharge it at work to get you home again! I dont know what running gear was used on the Cursor apart from the back end which is obviously all part of the suzuki engine transmission unit. I do know that the car was developed by qualified engineers and was well built unlike its contempory the Bamby. The photo posting facility on the forum is not working at present so we dont see your pic but we all know what the Dolphin looks like as its a regular visitor at the rum openday. If you get the chance, buy the Cursor anyway because they are getting hard to find. You could always sell it to me! Cheers, Bob
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Info. on the standard Cursor:-
Tech Spec:
49cc Suzuki CS50 power unit.
Electric start.
3 speed automatic gearing.
Self coloured GRP Bodyshell.
Tubular Steel chassis.
Hydraulic drum brakes on front/Hydro-mechanical drum brakes on rear.
Designed to fit moped regulations in UK.
Manufacturer: Replicar Ltd, Dunkirk, Kent U.K. Designer: Alan Hatswell.
In 1985 Replicar Limited, Kent (UK) produced the Cursor Microcar. The car, designed by Alan Hatswell, was created to allow sixteen year olds the chance to drive a car on the UK roads using only a moped license. This allowed then to drive a "car" a full year before they were legally allowed to.
The body of the Cursor was constucted from re-enforced fibreglass which was mounted onto a chassis of tubular steel. As the fibreglass body was made pigment was added to produce a self coloured bodyshell. The vehicle was powered by a 49cc Suzuki CS50 power unit which drove the single rear wheel.
As the Cursor was in effect a moped its design speed was 26 mph though it could go faster down hill and in the right wind conditions. Fuel consumption was excellent at approximately 90 mpg. The car was very expensive however, In 1985, the car cost £2200, this was in comparison to a normal moped that cost around £1000. This meant that most buyers would only keep the car for one year as they could drive a full size car when they became 17 years old. The Production life therefore was small and despite a two seater version that was also produced, production of these cars ceased in 1987 with just over 100 single seat Cursors being built; whilst the two seater is not have thought to have reached double figures.
John
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Hi John. I didnt know they had hyraulic drum brakes on the front with eight inch wheels? Why didnt you tell me this before?
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Hi Bob
Only pulled this info off of 2 different websites when I did Google search, so not confirmed by having seen them.
Mayby these websites info. is wrong or could this have could have been the original prototype spec?
Would be interesting to know for sure.
John
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Info was from :-
http://www.roldroyd.karoo.net/cursor/cursor.htm
Re the brake set up. The rough line drawing says they are 10 inch wheels ?
John
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Hi All
I understand the the Hammond collection has a prototype Cursor, has anyone had a look?
Rdgs
Cessna
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Having owned a Single seater and a 2 seater version of the Cursor a few years ago. And driven both on long journeys and even driving the 2 seater with my son as shotgun on a Micro Maniacs Rally on the Road Run where we were awarded a Trophy for traveling the whole road run. My biggest regret was to get rid of them however I have a cunning plan to maybe get them back one day? However I digress.
The Single seater Cursor has the Suzuki 50 CP engine fitted. This is restricted and you will have to get out and push it up a few hills and I am not joking. However once the washer is removed from the exhaust manifold and cylinder head and another pipe is plumbed into the exhaust pipe you will get 30+ mph. However even then it is too dangerous for the open road as the automatic clutch is too slow to engage to pull away at most roundabouts.
The front brakes are I can confirm are hydraulic brakes. The cabin and seating position are very comfortable. I had the option of either hard top roof or soft top.
There is a hatchback style boot big enough to carry what you need for a small journey but not a weeks shopping.
The instruments were taken from the moped guages so no problems there. Electric start and also not only that but you had also a pull start.
The engine assembly was the swinging arm back so if you wanted to do an engine swap it would be quite simple as all you would need was the swinging arm for the replacement.
As for the braking the BRAKES ARE adequate for the vehicle even at speed.
Let em tell you also I have never driven a vehicle that cornered as well as these I used to take a corner at 30 plus no braking and they were as if they were stuck to the road just like a Go Kart.
However please bare in mind that one of the first Cursor's that were produced had a fatality as the driver lady driver died hit by a car.
The problem you will have is the Insurance as for the 2 of them 8 years ago was I think £180 fully comp and that was for a 40 something driver. A 16 year old would not get cover.
They were manufactured in Gel Coat and a few were also produced in Metalflake and they look awful they look as if they have just come off a Merry Go Round ride and all that was missing was the pole at the back.
I SOLD them both but I keep getting asked if they are still for Sale. I feel as if the time is right for them now with todays moped powerplant in them they would cope with todays roads.
Besides as a commuter car 30 mph is fast enough for town commuting.
If you require anymore info I am more than willing to assist.
Now the 2 seater Cursor is a different kettle of fish WHAT A CAR.
I have been off the clock in that 55mph plus terrific!
And brilliant fun.
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My biggest regret was to get rid of them however I have a cunning plan to maybe get them back one day?
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x304/roundcars/rmcursor.jpg)
Hi Micronaut, this seems a familiar story on this forum, I don't suppose the cars pictured were yours, I like the look of the 2 seater gullwing version.
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Yes they were both mine and as I said it was my biggest regret was to get rid of them.
The 2 seater did have gull wing doors and had the Suzuki 50 cc CS engine much better than the C.P.
I also drove it with myself weighing in at 18 stone at the time with another man about the same weight driving it around the engine managed it with No probs had a lot of fun in the 2 seater.
As well as the single seater.
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Hi Micronaut
Yes I was one of those people.
Saw the ad on the website about 2 years ago and emailed you to ask if you still had them.
Would have liked either, ( just like something from Captain Scarlet or Joe 90 ) but the 2 seater, that would have been someting special. ;D
Where are they now?
What micro if any do you have now?
John
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Hi Micronaut
I e-mailed you some weeks ago when I first discovered the Cursor, your info very encouraging, Whilst the two seater would be my prefered option, I guess it's very unlikely I will ever find one. I know of someone with a single seater in storage which nearer the time maybe still available.
My journey to work would require a performance of 40+ mph otherwise I would be creating a "rolling road block", so if I go ahead it will require an improved engine. Do you know where I could get drawings or any accurate technical detail?
Kind regards
Cessna
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Here we are Micronaught, just for you (& several other Cursor fans) a lucky dip into my photo album for the 1999 National.....
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/bond070.jpg)
Elsewhere, a cursor doesn't sound any worse than my Mini Comtesse for cross-country work. I'd happily use one totally "as is", as I also would a Bamby or any other pathetic-powered vehicle. Enjoy the vehicle for what it is and what it has, rather than what it isn't and what it doesn't have..... :)
Anyone fancy getting together for a special roadrun of seriusly slow & underpowered vehicles? Only vehicles less than 100cc need apply. Sounds good to me..... 8)
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Great picture
All you need is the black circle floating over it to show the Mysterons are about.
Younger members see Captain Scarlet by Gerry Anderson
John
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Hi All
Sorry for all these questions, but anyone have a good web site for getting engine specifications? (typically Jap scooters), and how many bhp produced by the CS50 or CP50 engines?
Kind regards
Cessna
PS
Plan to go and look at the Cursor prototype in the Hammond collection.
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Hello again. I did have a manual for the CS50 scooter somewhere, when I find it you can have it. As I remember the cs engines are the ones to avoid, the reason being that they have a very complex and power draining mechanical auto gearbox, the scooter was an allmighty flop and then the belt drive variomatic scooters took over. The CP50 is I think of the latter. In our old Bamby we ditched the CS50 for a CP80, this was the belt type and was a terrific little engine and whats more it just bolted trait in, all the mounting holes were the same as the CS engines. The cars performance doubled in power, if you could find one it would be a good unit to use in a cursor.
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Hi
Thanks for the info on the CS50 engines, several people have questioned the reliability of the CS series, and as time is always tight a straight swap with a CP80 would be a good option. The first problem would be the lack of availability, from my initial enquiries it seems the Suzuki scooter was not very popular, so I may need to resort to using a more modern engine like the AY50, although it may require more modification. As far as power is concerned I haven't tried to calculate the power I would need for 40+mph, certainly the AY50 produces 3.5bhp (as long as I go the conversion from Kw right!) still trying to find figures for the CS50 for comparison.
Kind regards
Cessna
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If it helps to know, the converted Bamby would have just kept on accelerating and I'm sure would have gone well over 40mph but the brakes and handling were so awful, 30mph was all we would dare go!
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Gents, apologies for reviving such an old thread but sadly the Stondon museum is closing and one of the Replicars mentioned further up this thread is for sale on Wednesday. I found this site when looking for further details on the car and there are a few microcars that you all may find interesting.
Might I just state that I have no connection with either the Museum or the Auction house however I thought you all might find the auction stock worthy of a look.
http://brightwells.com/ClassicCarsMotorcyclesAutomobilia/ClassicVehicles/StondonCataloguePart2.aspx
(http://classiccars.brightwells.com/images/lots/tn_DSC_2419.jpg)
http://www.motor-museum.co.uk/
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Anyone fancy getting together for a special roadrun of seriusly slow & underpowered vehicles? Only vehicles less than 100cc need apply. Sounds good to me..... 8)
That and subsiquant suggestions for the same thing have fallen on stony ground. Yet there are more puddlejumpers out there than ever. So what do people do with them, other than throw the original engines away?