RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: Jim Janecek on November 02, 2009, 09:14:18 PM
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someone named "Mike" in the UK allegedly has a Peel P50 for sale.
Been in storage for many years.
He wants £50,000 for it.
says he turned down an offer for £40,000 last year.
anyone else heard this?
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Blob! I thought it was just Nobel's & Frisky's you had in that back garden of yours!!!!! :o ;) ;D
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someone named "Mike" in the UK allegedly has a Peel P50 for sale.
Been in storage for many years.
He wants £50,000 for it.
says he turned down an offer for £40,000 last year.
anyone else heard this?
Would like to get further informations about this myth !
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Would like to get further informations about this myth !
The part about him asking £50,000 is not a myth
The part about having a previous offer of £40,000 is the myth as far as I am concerned.
unfortunately I do not know the serial number of the vehicle , but he did say at one point that the car was "definitely" one of the "early" versions as the windscreen wiper is on the bottom and not the top as later models.
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Would like to get further informations about this myth !
The part about him asking £50,000 is not a myth
The part about having a previous offer of £40,000 is the myth as far as I am concerned.
unfortunately I do not know the serial number of the vehicle , but he did say at one point that the car was "definitely" one of the "early" versions as the windscreen wiper is on the bottom and not the top as later models.
The wiper statement is utter nonsense. All P50's had their wipers roof mounted.
Although values are an entirely different thing alltogether. The Peel market is non-existent although I know of a few that have changed hands by private treaty.
Why would anyone sell their car? when it seems..
1, you'll never have the chance to but another. 2, prices appear to continue to rise.
You can't "wish" values down and dismiss them because they were cheap once. One has to look at other Classic Cars to see massive rises i.e.. 2.7 RS 911
Supply and demand. I know of no other machine that has such little supply as Peel..
I suppose it's the Top Gear effect.
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But do the cars really sell for these prices? I have heard of TG500 selling for 30-40K, it seams every time the subject of values comes up someone doubles them! Is this a matter of owners trying to hype up the value of their cars? Lets have some proof , examples etc.
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Blob! I thought it was just Nobel's & Frisky's you had in that back garden of yours!!!!!
Yes it's me, who wants to give me 50K ;)... as for values of P50's, when Top Gear's Clarkson announced the current price he hiked it up, but then he’s told to say whatever is on the autocue. Then those not in the know (i.e. the general public) start saying, "ooh! I'd love one, but a genuine example’s £40,000" and owners quiet rightly go along with it. Values rise as a result of misinformation and when some nutter pays well above and beyond it’s actual value because he hasn’t a clue, it's like the old Chinese whisper effect.
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Damien Hurst sells dead animals in formaldehyde for millions - I would rather own a Peel Trident
Well it's about time they ended up as art, as they're pretty useless as cars. ;D
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£35,000 to £40,000 seems to be the current sales value for both the Peel P50s and Tridents - if you can find one. Most deals take place by private treaty, not on the open market so it is difficult to give hard statistics. £50,000 may appear a little steep, but don't forget Bruce Weiner sold a Peel Trident at Christies (12 years ago) in 1997 for £33,781.25p (£25,000 hammer price +£3,750 commission + £5,031.25p VAT) At the time that was about the same price as a Tg500 - but now a decent Tg500 sells for £80,000 to £100,000
Its all down to supply and demand. I guess at £50,000 it will get snapped up.
Are TG's worth that much? With the imploded pound I suspect they are. 80k Euros was not so long ago 50k sterling. Which was TG money as we all know. Why sell cheap? Would any owner?!
Indeed a lot of nutters abound. But market forces drive prices. Half a cow in a fish tank aint worth £1m! Or is it? Who says it's not?
Mr Hirst can make more crap art but only a finite amount of Peels exist. I'll keep mine ta very much as enjoy owning them more than the cash in the bank making .5% P.A
Peels are crap cars. But charming odd crap cars. Let's not forget that...
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Well, come on then, lets have some examples of TG's recently sold for £100k.
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But do the cars really sell for these prices? I have heard of TG500 selling for 30-40K, it seams every time the subject of values comes up someone doubles them! Is this a matter of owners trying to hype up the value of their cars? Lets have some proof , examples etc.
very true! I know someone who recently purchased a Tg that is now privately telling people he paid DOUBLE what he actually paid.
and since there is no public record of the sale, few people know the truth.
I also think the "Top Gear effect" as mentioned has something to do with this as well.
Just saying "they go for £40,000" is not enough to make someone actually pay that.
I am working on a story right now about a rather rare microcar (a one off, so I guess it is rare) that the owner had "professionally appraised".
It was appraised at 300,000 Euro.
Now, perhaps for insurance purposes you could do that, but to sell it at that price? No.
However, they tried to sell it for 300,000 Euros. No takers, no offers.
They then tried to have a high-end consignment house sell it for them (the consignment house assured them the vehicle was worth 300,000 euros)
No takers.
They still own the car as far as I know and have dropped the price considerably. (almost half now I think).
I think the actual market value of the thing is around 30,000 Euro. But they have had not one, but TWO "trusted" authorities tell them that is was "worth" 10X that amount.
So they don't want to get sell too cheap of course! But they will be stuck with the car now and when they die it will be sold at their estate sale for the actual market value.
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One of the ex Werner Hafner Tg500s sold for 100,000 Euros in Germany this year (£92,000) and a well known red UK Tg needing restoration for 62K
Wasn't Bruce was asking 200,000 US$ for a yellow one last year. (£122,000)
Do you have anything to back up those prices? Seriously.
I know what the asking and sale price was on the yellow Tg and it was not $200,000
Every time someone mentions that car, the price seems to go up.
The actual price could be easily ascertained by anyone but few people bothered. It would appear that speculation is more interesting than facts.
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I am working on a story right now about a rather rare microcar (a one off, so I guess it is rare) that the owner had "professionally appraised".
It was appraised at 300,000 Euro.
Now, perhaps for insurance purposes you could do that, but to sell it at that price? No.
However, they tried to sell it for 300,000 Euros. No takers, no offers.
They then tried to have a high-end consignment house sell it for them (the consignment house assured them the vehicle was worth 300,000 euros)
No takers.
They still own the car as far as I know and have dropped the price considerably. (almost half now I think).
That wouldn't be the Likeness Monster would it be? That story has that thing's owner's hallmarks all over it.... ;)
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The recent Tg500 sale prices are common knowledge among the Messerschmitt owners club mafia.
What proof do you need - copies of the receipts?
well, given that people are prone to exaggeration and speculation and I have seen this first hand, over and over, I have to say that these prices you have quoted are probably wildly inaccurate.
At least one of them is WAY off, so if the information on the other 2 sales was obtained in the same manner, I would have to say that there is no basis in fact for any of the prices you just quoted.
If the "Messerschmitt owner's club mafia" is saying that Bruce's Yellow Tg sold for $200,000 they are just flat out wrong. For you to pass this on as "fact" is also wrong.
Did you know that it was also "common knowledge" that Messerschmitts were made from old aircraft parts?
The simple and common sense solution to end this "silly speculation" over Bruce's yellow Tg would be to tell us what it sold for.
No, the simple way to end "speculation" is to stop "speculating" and passing on rumours of what you heard or what someone else "heard".
The details of the sale are not mine to disclose. Anyone could have easily found out the asking price at any time.
To my knowledge all potential buyers were asked to hand over their credit card details just to find out the asking price - no wonder it caused speculation.
That is sort of correct. They did not have to pass over any "credit card details" they just had to put down a FULLY REFUNDABLE deposit of $1000.
All you had to do was put down the deposit, find out the asking price, then say "no thank you" and the deposit was immediately credited back to your account.
It was that simple.
But for some reason people kept trying to get the asking price without putting down the FULLY REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT.
A FULLY REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT from a credit card that costs you NOTHING but 5 extra minutes of time.
They were not interested in purchasing the vehicle. They just wanted it's value so they could use that information elsewhere.
getting off Tiger speculations and back to Peel P50, which is what this thread was about....
all the above discussion (which is quite lively and entertaining) seems to back up my theory that this guy got his £40,000 "offer" from watching Top Gear and that there really is no buyer for the car at that price.
I could be wrong but right now I don't think so.
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:)
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What utter tosh and hypocrisy - I get the impression you will only believe what you want to believe regardless - are you really asking for receipts and bank statements submitted in triplicate as proof of microcar prices paid?
no, don't put words in my mouth.
but something more than pub gossip would be a good start.
You said "The part about having a previous offer of £40,000 is the myth as far as I am concerned." if thats not speculation on your side what is it?
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I am not the one "speculating". I think you have something wrong here in the translation.
The alleged SELLER of the Peel P50 in question is the one that "claimed" to have already had an offer of £40,000 and turned it down.
I have no way to verify if this is true or not.
I already explained why previously.
"Wasn't Bruce asking 200,000 US$ for a yellow one last year". was a question which you refuse to answer.
oh, sorry I can answer that: No, Bruce was not asking $200,000 for a yellow one last year.
how's that?
No problem with that - just don't be suprised if others keep their dealings private.
I have no problem with people keeping their dealings private.
I do have a problem when people claim prices/offers etc that they cannot verify.
I had to write a whole article on the Peel Trident that was on eBay for £35,000 that did not sell. People saw the final price and just assumed the car sold for that amount when in fact it did not.
There was also a Peel P50 on UK eBay a few years ago and I was the high bidder at about £13,000 if I recall. The auction was "no reserve" so whoever was the high bidder would get the vehicle.
At the last moment another bidder came in and outbid me.
I am 99% certain that the high bidder was the seller using another eBay account because he wanted to ensure the vehicle did not sell for too cheap a price.
Oddly enough the seller had the EXACT same car for sale later privately for about £20,000 so I am fairly certain the car never sold in that eBay listing in the first place. (Unless the seller -who shall remain anonymous here - can provide me with a better explanation)
I considered it unreasonable to be asked to pay a $1000 (£600) deposit just to find the asking price of a car.
You really missed my point when I explained this earlier didn't you?
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Hi Guys, Just been clearing out my loft and found some 35mm slides of my two Peel P50s amongst 29 pictures of some of the other micros I had in 1976. MHX 90C was sold for £250 and EME 583B, the Top Gear/ youtube car sold for £40.
Sorry about the quality. Photographed them through my viewer.
Just found that if you click onto the little green sign next to the word PEELS 1976 under the pics it comes up full size.
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you can also just click the photo and it will load in at full size as well.
click the giant photo again and it will go back down to smaller size.
£250!
for a Peel! outrageous!
who would pay such a price? ;D
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£250!
for a Peel! outrageous!
who would pay such a price? ;D
The same person who paid over £600 for a restored, on the road Tourette. Not a bad price for 1976!
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:)
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Speculation again - completely wrong again.
You seem quite desperate to discredit me for some reason but you are doing a terrible job of it.
update: I seem to have really struck a nerve with you on that particular point about the P50 on eBay.
You say I am "completely wrong" so it would seem you have some special insight into that which no one else has?
Are you claiming perhaps to be either the original Seller or the purported Buyer?
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Peels (talk of) + Money (talk of) = Disharmony. I'm off out to play with my Mini-Comtesse (£900), Argson (£100) & Wrigley (£10). They cost me 100 times less in total than one of the sums mentioned prior, but they give me 100 times more the pleasure for at least I can make the merest mention of them without two or three pages within hours of nothing but sniping, accusations, back-biting and plain nastyness. Who thus has the better world? They in their rich cheque-book glass house, or I in my pennyless-pit?
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100 times more pleasure Stuart?
I obviously get more pleasure from my KR than any Peel as it is actually usable. However I've yet to arrive at a car show in my Trident. I suspect it will steal the show when I do. Aston,Ferraris present whatever.
So whilst less used to mean less it appears to have become more and the rest of the world has caught up.
Peels, TG's etc will continue to rise because they have that defineable quality called desire coupled with relative rarity. We're talking pennies realistically compared to established heavyweight machines.
I think we can now accept that these things aren't cheap. What's cheap?! Something you can easily afford!
Oh for a crystal ball!
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Right then folks, this should put the cat firmly back amidst the pigeons, as Alan Hitchcock has asked me to post a reply about this particular Peel on his behalf. His responce is as follows...
Hi Stuart
I have just been directed by my buddy to look at the RUMcar forum as they are arguing about his Peel 50. I read the thread with some amusement as it just encapsulates all the reasons why forums do not work. We have secret identities of vested interests against bigots against the ill informed drowning out the reasonable enthusiast in a meaningless argument about something none of them know much about, hence the off piste trip into Tigers in attempt to gain standing depth in deep waters.
The facts - I was asked to market a Peel 50 to a few collectors I know, no, not telling as I do not want some of the idiots on the forum hassling them, its my and their business alone. Clearly one has sought advice as the news has filtered out, up to them. The only offer that came back converted to a little more than £40,000 as this fellow already has a Trident - and yes it is a real one before that kicks off and no I am not telling how much it cost him, it's private. Clearly he should have a pair but he believes he can argue he has one already.... This was not the selling price that my chum wished to accept so it was politely rejected and we await a higher offer from where ever. If it is not forthcoming then the car stays where it is. This is called a sellers market and anyone else's opinion of the value is somewhat irrelevant at this time, though it would be silly to not expect speculation. This may change of course but for the moment interested buyers may contact me with their offers on behalf of my chum, since this is what he asked me to do.
No doubt everyone can now speculate on which Peel 50 is for sale and which Trident is where. Hours of fun for those without a life, unless of course - oh goodness - its business, say it's not so! I am not sure of what reception a direct approach will receive as there will be a reason why I was asked to act. However if you want to risk the owner's ire you can, by all means, contact him instead of myself. Just do not be upset if you take yourself out of the running. I remain on my email alanbubblecars@hotmail.com for serious enquiries.
I am not a member of this or any other forum as I really do not want to deal with the ignorance and rude, bullying behaviour of some of the members of most I have visited. If you would post this reply then you can enjoy the ripples. All it reinforces to me is the deathnell of any realistic harmonious hobby collecting rare microcars and I am pleased I sold mine off to the highest bidder. I prefer owning half of Bristol and the income it brings. I will continue my private collection on my own terms so I can enjoy it without interference of the thought police. Clearly your not far off feeling the same judging by your comments on the thread.
Big Al
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thanks for the update from a person that is
A: actually involved with the vehicle in question
B: is not anonymous!
Transparency always helps to clear up a number of things.
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So I think we've established it's a sellers market....
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I guess so Perry. It was good to hear from Alan, despite the fact that forums don't work and we are all bigoted idiots he couldn't resist joining in!
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It seems vehicles that have had replicas made of them appear to rocket in price, is this because the cost to reproduce a car is so great it justifies doubling or even tripling the value of a genuine one?
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It seems vehicles that have had replicas made of them appear to rocket in price, is this because the cost to reproduce a car is so great it justifies doubling or even tripling the value of a genuine one?
Now THAT is an interesting observation. Chicken or Egg?
My opinion (speculating again... ::) ) is that the replicas don't necessarily cause the prices of the genuine vehicles to rise directly, but if there is enough demand in relation to supply and the vehicle can be replicated for a cost-effective price, then replicas will be made and sold. As the price of a genuine vehicle continues to rise while supply remains relatively non-existent , the attraction of a replica goes up and so do sales of it. As more replicas are out and about, this may increase interest in obtaining a "genuine" one for some people. And of course this causes the price to continue to rise.
Ripley's obviously saw the amount of publicity generated by their replica Peels and decided to make a fleet of them. Plus the "World's Smallest" title does not hurt.
Also- once a replica is available, I think that the "value" of a "genuine" item is elevated simply because it causes people to ask why not obtain a "genuine" item instead of a replica and then they find out that none are available and then the genuine item becomes even more desirable to them. An endless feedback loop of attraction and desire.
I don't think a replica guarantees that the original will increase in value though, look at the Tri-Tech Schmitt for example.
There was a point where it cost about as much to buy and build a complete Tri-Tech Schmitt as it would cost for a genuine Messerschmitt.
Messerschmitt values have gone up but not crazy money because you can still find genuine Schmitts if you really want.