RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on May 29, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
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Well here is the long awaited Isetta I promised myself back in 1993! Shelley wants to stick black spots on it and call it Ladybird!, Errr I dont think so!
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm224/gyrostarter/IMG_2007-2.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm224/gyrostarter/IMG_2003-1.jpg)
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Looks very nice Bob.Shame you had to let your smitt go.Was one of the best i have seen ;)
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New babies are always good, mates. I am also looking for something new. Bond , Bamby, Nobel, Scootacar!
Any ideas?
OR ANY OFFERS???
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nice one Bob. look forward to hearing of your exploits . it should be nice when restored ;D
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New babies are always good, mates. I am also looking for something new. Bond , Bamby, Nobel, Scootacar!
Any ideas?
OR ANY OFFERS???
There are some Bond MkGs and a C coming up from my bud. Might be a Berk SA322 but he would rather sell his Nobel. On hols at the mo but back soon so I can put you in touch.
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I took the Isetta out for its first spin today. The car was restored about eighteen years ago by someone who likes restoring but not driving and it was put up on blocks unused for sixteen years. Basicly what I have taken on is a cosmeticaly pretty car which has had a mechanical overhaul too but has not been through that sorting period to ironing out all the wrinkles, adjustments etc, this usually takes several months of driving I have found. When I got it the battery was dead so today I fitted a new one and got it started. Now for a go around the block, first impressions, brakes good, engine running a little erraticaly, I think the carb needs cleaning out. Steering wasnt too bad despite the play mentioned in the other thread. Clutch needs adjusting. What was shocking though was an awfull judder coming from the back. Thinking that I had bought a right pig in a poke I pulled into the drive and pondered what may be causeing it. The only time I had experianced something like it was when I ran a reliant supervan and the front wheel nuts had worked loose. Grasping at straws I jacked the back up and sure enough, the rear wheel nuts had not been done up! With the nuts done up nice and tight I took it out again and what a transfomation! With faith restored I now plan on spending a couple of days soon adjusting everything up and hopefully have it ready for some rallies this summer.
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please check the drive donuts to make sure they are not cracked. If they fail while moving it is a big problem.
I am working on someone's Isetta right now because "the rear brake is stuck", turns out one of the 2 donuts broke, bent the flanges on both the chaincase and gearbox and locked up the rear wheels.
Brakes were fine.
also- check the 5 silentblocs in the steering, particularly the ones on either end of the tie rod. Even if replaced 18 years ago, the rubber can disintegrate leaving lots of excess play (a little bit of play adds up through 5 silentblocs..). You might want to replace these just as preventative maintenance. Every Isetta I have seen that was sitting could use these.
The problem is that they might seem fine at first but once you start driving they start wearing (if they are old) and if you hit a bump you get this awful "Shake of Death" from the front end.
I am surprised the brakes still worked! Go Girling!
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HI Jim. I didn't realise that you were an Isetta man. Now I know I will be bothering you daily! About the brakes, its not as wonderful as the impression I gave, speaking to the previous owner he admitted to refurbing the master cylinder about three years back because the brakes were jammed on. At the same time he fitted a new fuel tank as the old one was weeping, this was when he forgot to do up the wheel nuts! The brakes pull up straight and I think will get sharper because the linings are still not bedded in yet even though eighteen years old. I will check the donuts. The multitude of silentblock bushes is so reminiscent of Nobels, it must be a German thing. I haven't taken the cover plate off yet but looking at the steering all the play appears to be from directly under the steering box so I'm guessing its the box or the first linklages that I cannot see with the cover on. Dispite adjusting the clutch both ways there is some drag going on making gear changing awkward, I dont know whats going on there but hope it doesn't necessitate engine removal to sort, any ideas? Bob
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mind you, I don't know the setup for a RHD Isetta and just assume the steering components are the same (but reversed) from a LHD model.
look at the attached for a view of the LHD steering. Hold it up to a mirror to see yours. ;)
I was incorrect earlier there are only FOUR silentblocs in the steering, I was tired and thinking of the shifter linkage. That is where my mind goes when I am tired, I have idea why....
Note in the parts that #86 appears to be one piece but is in fact a worm screw and receiver.
If you move the steering wheel and #86 does not appear to move up and down, your problem is a worn worm screw assembly. :'(
If that part DOES go up and down slightly you are in luck and the problem is most likely one or all of the 4 silentblocs down the line. :D
the Isetta steering is not as tight as other micros, a little bit "spongy".
As for the clutch, over time the cable housing stretches slightly so no matter how much you adjust it, the cable will not provide enough travel to fully disengage.
That is one common problem.
Another is that the rod that goes through the gearbox and activates the clutch "sticks".
It is supposed to rotate with the gears but if the bearings stick over time,especially after sitting for many years, the rod may also stick and this means you are pressing a stationary rod against a rotating clutch plate and essentially are slowly drilling a hole in the clutch plate.
Or of course maybe the clutch lining is worn.
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Thanks Jim. I will study the drawing. Fear not, mine is LHD also. Many Brighton built cars are.
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Cyril Ayton's "Book of the Bubblecar" might be useful for you as it deals with Isettas, Schmitts and Heinkel Trojans.
But you already know that and have your own copy...!
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You are right Marcus. I have the book but it really only covers maintainence.
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I just read on an American Isetta site that our Jim is regarded as an Isetta "expert"! Great! That's just what I need! :D I have now had a few days to fiddle with the new toy, when I got it the car would only run with the choke partly out, I dismantled the carb and discovered that as well as needing de-varnishing inside the float was covered in hairline fractures and thus was a leaker. Fortunately I had a new float in stock as it appears to be the same as a Schmitt one. Now the engine runs as sweet as a nut without the choke. Next issue to tackle is the dragging clutch. Everyone goes on about how the rod should rotate so as not to slowly bore a hole in the clutch plate, whilst I appreciate that is the case it doesn't answer my current question, with rod rotating or not rotating , after trying the full range of adjustments the clutch still drags and makes gear changing an unpleasant affair. What could be causing this? Apparently it did not do this before the car was stood up many years ago. Any ideas anyone?
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The only 2 things I can think of that are left are:
Weak/Old Clutch cable housing that stretches slightly when you apply the clutch.
or
worn clutch lining. How do you know that was not the reason it was "stood up" many years ago?
also- you cannot tell the condition of the clutch pressure plate until you pull the engine off the gearbox.
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Well this is what I'm asking, could it be a faulty pressure plate? Its certainly not the cable. If the clutch lining were worn surely that would cause clutch slip, not drag? As you say, this problem may well be the reason it was not used. Are pressure plates available in the usa? They are not on the parts list here. I will pop the engine out shortly, just getting a feel as to what to look for in advance. Thanks Jim.
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Update.... Removed the engine today and the clutch pressure plate is warped , also the diaphram looks like it has been poping out one sided as well. Looks like this is the problem. Now to find a new pressure plate and diaphram. Any ideas anyone?
p.s. Once you know what you are doing it only takes about 30 mins to get the little thumper out of the car.
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http://oldtimerteile.net (http://oldtimerteile.net)
look under ENGINE section
or try Isetta Owner's Club of GB
or try http://bromleybubble.com/ (http://bromleybubble.com/)
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Thanks Jim. I stumbled across the oldtimerteile site last night. They seem to have just about everything!
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Update.... my Isetta clutch problem turned out to be a warped pressure plate spring, I sourced a good used one from Bromley Bubble and now I can change gear!! Also I discovered where the free play in the steering was coming from, It wasnt the steering box after all but the shaft bushes that are pressed in the chassis tube under the steering box. Oh well, I'm learning all the time!
I know its silly but I like to name my cars, especially if I plan to keep them long term, my X schmitt was primrose for obvious reasons and I have decided that the Isetta is "Thumper", partly because of the engine tone and partly after the rabbit in Disneys Bamby. Sad isnt it! :D
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Slightly worrying as to what might be Flower. A Barkus dustbin lorry?
Part of the fun of a new car is understand its foilbles. Perhaps when that phase is passed I loose interest like some and move on to the next. Others are content to have long ownership and less hassle.
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Well my Trojan is called DUF, because that's it's registration letters. And it's Duff no more, many thanks to Goggo for amazing help. Just back from passing its MOT test, now breakfast then on to renew Road Tax and insurance, AND the new cover arrived even though I only ordered it yesterday, so today I am a VERY happy bunny despite appalling toothache!
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New cover? Whats that then? I want a weather proof one for Thumper. Whilst I have your attention marcus as one prop maker to another I had to make an Electric Egg this week and I delivered it to a set yesterday. I forgot to photograph it but they were so pleased with it that they have ordered another so will send you a pic of the second one when its done. Anyway, I digress, when at the studio a group called The Penguin Cafe Orchestra were being filmed in a Victorian operating theater! Very weird! Even weirder than the Fezzheads! Are you familiar with them?
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I have heard of Penguin Cafe Orchestra, they have been around for quite a while.
I also used to make props for TV commercials as well. (not really elaborate ones but some weird stuff nonetheless)
One day I will post some behind the scenes videos of stuff I used to do.
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Oh the cover is just a basic nylon throw over, 2 years of sun and cats' claws have seen to the old one which Jackie P gave me from her Dad's garage. This one came from Amazon dealer M & A Roshan, Luton. With delivery it was £13.99 (Halfords charge over £20 for similar). DUF has a dust cover, then a tarpaulin, then one of these to hold it all down. Only ordered it yesterday. Not fully weatherproof, but with tarps and dust cover it works out fine for me.
Look forward to seeing pics of Electric Egg!
I LOVE the Penguin Cafe Orchestra, met the violinist a while back, he has played with lots of top bands and musicians. Their music is very popular on TV ads, they have been going for ages, and have released plenty of CDs, but a few years ago their founder and main writer died, still relatively young. Their music is simple, somewhere between pop/rock/New Age/Ambient/Folk/World and classical! Quite a mix, usually about 6-9 in the band, with guitars, keys, bass, ukuleles, synths, violin and percussion. Which studio was that? What programme?
NOTHING IN THE WORLD is weirder than The Fabulous Fezheads: Mulipli-Untalented Middle-Aged Men Behaving Stupidly With Far Too Little Blood In Their Alcohol Streams.
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I make things for the scientific props supplier "Curious Science" Park Royal. At the premises they have two permanent sets, one is the Victorian operating theater and the other is the Victorian doctors study. The Penguins were just finishing up when I arrived, it was film only, not a sound recording, there were props everywhere, human torsos, top hats , you name it!! Dont know what it was in aid of but as you are a fan I will find out. By the way, have you been watching the series "The History of Science"? Remember the enormous four leyden jar Wimshurst machine? It was one of mine, I bought it when about 20% complete and built the rest up, it produces one hell of a crack!! I will post a pic of an electric egg later, an old one.
Looks like there is a trio of props makers now what with Jims revelation.
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...and then there were 3!
I nearly got a job of making a Wimshurst Machine, with a 2 foot glass disc. Deadline 3 days. They wanted it totally puckha, with ornate wood. I politely declined, and they hired one. THREE DAYS! That included sourcing all the materials and components, building, finishing, testing and getting it to the studios. I suppose I could go on to make a fully operational Concorde in a week!
When we re-created Perkin's Ice Maker, the first patented ice-making machine, I had to source valves which could tolerate the ether, and almost all modern valves have nylon seals which disintegrate very quickly. Worked with South Thames Poly. Got it registering pressure (and therefore temperature) differences, delivered it to location. Kew Gardens. In Summer. Guess where the producer had decided to film the Ice Making machine. That's right, the GREENHOUSE! 5 pumps of the handle..."Where's the ice then?" Even the best modern fridge would take days to get cold and still would probably not make ice in a hothouse! Fortunately Adam Hart-Davis DOES have a BSc, so he told her that ice would be unlikely, and that the indicated pressure difference meant that the prop WAS working!
TV people!
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3 days?! They are not as easy as they look, the correct materials are crucial as to it actually working or not.
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Yup, just you try telling things like that to some TV people though!
We almost got a contract to recreate the World's first ever Submarine. Made by Cornelius Drebbel in 1620 it went down the Thames, carried King James 1 underwater, and could submerge for up to 3 hours because of the re-oxygenating equipment which Drebbel designed. Just as we were about to get the commission, another BBC crew started making a replica, so our show was cancelled. The one they made worked fairly well, despite all the restrictions of modern Health and Safety regs.
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A few of my life accomplishments for TV commercials and such:
Make a Lariat that ANYONE could use.
Make a box of Ghostbusters Breakfast Cereal not only light up and glow from all sides through selected portions of the box but also magically float out of the cabinet while rotating....
Make it appear that a dog is walking across a living room floor that happens to be covered 2 feet deep in Bark Mulch and all you see is his wagging tail.
Make a model Alka Seltzer tablet fizz like a real one.
Despite being over 10 years old and the wide ability and use of Computer Graphics over the last 10 years, I still see my Tablet TV commercials on occasion. Looks quite real. And when it is not in the water, fizzing for an unlimited amount of time (with variable fizz of course), it looks horrible sitting on a table. Everyone was whispering that they had made a huge mistake when they first saw it. That is until it actually went into the fishtank and began to Act Properly!
Turn the Lobby of a school into a replica of NASA's Mission Control Center. (I think I had 5 days on that one after we were turned down for actually filming at NASA...)
Make a standard Alarm Clock walk (with feet) across the tabletop set and actually hit it's mark. It also had to execute a right or left 90 degree turn sometimes.
Make a pod-like contraption that cracked open like an egg for the host of a TV show to get out of. They wanted me to use a VW Beetle.
I had a better idea, I used an Isetta that I had found. And that was how I got into Microcars!
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Great stuff Jim. I made a "Humane Creepy Crawly Catcher" for Discovery Kids. It had to be triggered electrically by the minimal weight of the spider. There was a ramp for it to walk up: TV wanted the ramp to make it look fun, but they did realise that animals do not always do what we want them to, but they did set my mind at rest by saying they might use a fake spider on a stick.
If they used a real one I made a floor hinged with paper and with electrical contacts, so with leverage advantage even the lightest spider would make a contact, turn on an electric motor which wound in a thread which pulled out a pin from a string loop on which a trap door hung; when the pin came out, down came the door, trapped the spider inside the box. The hinged floor had to be well inside the box so that the spider would not be hurt by the dropping door.
Knowing that as soon as the cameras were rolling this would all fail, I added extra hidden wires at the back of the box so someone could make the contact if the spider failed to.
Knowing that few people in TV have the skill to touch 2 wires together at the right time (!), and knowing that even if they DID, it would be bound to fail as soon as the cameras were rolling, I also added a fine hidden thread which would pull out the pin if all else failed. All in the one day I was given.
It got to the studio, and they decided they WOULD use a real spider, which would obviously know EXACTLY what it had to do!
And guess what? IT DID! They got the perfect shot first take, genuine and unfaked, the spider walked up the ramp, through the opening, into the box, made the contact and down came the door, and I have a video of the show. No faking needed, but they were extremely grateful that I had included two emergency back-up options for them.
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Could I just say that I am a rejected prop and that I have not made any. It is true, I was going to be a film extra but the director said I stood out to much in the bar scene and people would not concentrate on the actors. Not sure if I am pleased or not!
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OK Bob, here is a photo of my new cover. It has big pockets for wing mirrors so a bit of customizing was required!
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Do I have to have that one or do they come with different faces?
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I did the face with a felt tip pen. The "ears" need a bit more stuffing, and the camera angle does not show it to full advantage, but it gets a few laughs.
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Another update.... I know Isettas are not rare microcars but as not much else is going on with the forum at present I thought I would keep the updates going, It may be helpful to anyone else restoring an Isetta, besides, I have always thought what was lacking from this forum was tech chat, all we seem to talk about is ebay, values and ID'ing pictures!
Slack in the steering. I found the source of this problem on my car, it was the two bushes that the steering shaft runs in under the front of the car. There is a short length of tubing welded to the chassis with a fossi bronze bush pressed into each end. The guy I got the car from assured me that it was fine when he "restored" the car so why was it total shot after only one hundred miles of driving? I discovered the answer yesterday afternoon whilst striping it down, upon removal I saw that the bushes and shaft had been cut and scored to ribbons by grit left over from when the chassis had been grit blasted! Something to remember with all car restorations, grit blasting is great but can be a disaster if you don't make sure its all cleaned up before you start adding grease and moving parts to it, the grit sticks to the grease which makes very course grinding paste! What made this worse in my case was that the grit appears to magnetically stick to the moving parts,I kept flushing the parts with degreaser and some of the particles would just not let go! The medium must have been cold iron or something. Oh well, more expense! Still, there is no going back now, and I'm still hoping to be running around in it before the summer ends. The lesson I'm learning here is that you just cant trust someone elses "restoring", there is no substitute for doing it yourself!
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Interesting stuff, and a good lesson. The previous owner of DUF had done a lot of structural work, including on the petrol tank which had rusted badly. He replaced almost the entire bottom half of it with new metal, and finished it off. I installed it as was, not realising that he had not cleaned or de-rusted the inside at all. I put in tank sealer, but this obviously did not adhere very long to the muck, and fine rust sludge gradually got through the filter and eventually caused the inlet valve to seize......never trust ANYTHING on an old car!
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That is annoying isnt it. Still in my work I'm used to having to going back over other people so called restoring. Its a treat to work on sleepy thing that have not already been the victim of "someone having a go". What brand of tank sealer did you use?
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It was my fault for not checking really thoroughly, but by that point of my restoration I was running out of time, energy and money AND I really wanted to get on the road! The initial sealer I got from the H-T club. I think it is good stuff if your tank is really clean, but in my case it just lifted despite washing it out first. When I relised the problem I cut the tank in half got it down to bright metal, had a clever friend do a fine bit of MIG welding for me, then used Flowliner from C Wylde and co.
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Ah Flowliner is what I use.
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I want a Wylde Flowliner. That really ought to be an outragious American '50's campervan.
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Or an electric guitar, or 1930s aerodynamic car/plane/train/ship!
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...And here we have the perfect accesory for Bob & Thumper. :) Would you belive, Isetta-shaped sliippers!!! :o I think now, we really have seen it all...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Microcar-Bubblecar-Isetta-slippers-NEW-Vroomers-/260629492772?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeba7424
Blue ones avalible too...
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Are these made with an extra bit of instep in the right hand one or are both fourwheelers? I await Messerschmitt branded knappies and Scootacar string vests. I always said the ICR should do regalia. My suggestion was incontance pants with logo and a pair of calipers for standing in a field looking at stuff for a day without your legs getting tired.
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Dear Stuart and Al
You may be interestd in the range of Rumcar branded goods that have been considerd in the past, but rejected on the grounds of volume (or lack of)
1 Rose tinted bifocal reading glasses for all Microcar owners.
2 Extra padded trouser inserts for long (or slow) bumpy journeys in Messerschmitts and Sans Permis vehicles
3 Ear defenders for Nobel and Frisky drivers
4 Spine supports for Scootercar owners
5 Prayer wheels for Tuk Tuk drivers and passengers
6 Knee pads for long legged P 50 owners
7 Flying helmets for Inter owners
8 Brown paper carrier bags with three holes (available in three head sizes) for G wizz owners
9 Lead, passenger seat covers, for Isetta owners
10 Solar powered hats (heated or cooled depending upon the clients preference) for Trident owners.
Further suggestions for branded products are always being considered.
Chris Thomas
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Thanks Stuart, they are great!!!! Who's gonna buy me a pair? I will try and talk the wife into it.
Chris, some good ideas there. Paper bags for G-wiz drivers indeed, I take it you wont be wanting a drive of the AC at the open day then? You could bring your own bag? :D Its no good asking you to bring a microcar of coarse! ;)
Here are a few more ideas.
Fire extinguishers for Rodley's.
Stick on turned up noses for TG500 owners :D
"I love Jeremy Clarkson " stickers for Reliant owners.
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Dear Bob
All Microcar owners should consider supplimentary badges for their vehicles, like V8 and 4X4. Especially Reliant's!
The best one I have seen was an Si badge on a Ford KA.
Chris Thomas
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A range of stickers saying things like:
"Yes it DOES have a reverse gear"
"Yes it DOES have to display a valid Tax Disc"
"No, it's an urban myth: nobody ever parked in a garage and died because they could not reverse or open the front door"
"No, it's not a *Messershmitt/Issetta/Reliant/Invalid Carriage*" (plus other options)
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"Yes, it is an invalid carriage!"
"No it's not illigal!"
"Why don't you go away & mind your own business til you've checked your 'facts' "
I think I'll make up a thousand of that last one right now...... ;D
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And of course the "No, they are not made from aircraft parts left over from WW2!"
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The best bit of merchandising for me would be a comprehensive English language book about Ernst Heinkel, his factories and all their products. Lots of photos too, please!
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Good news about Thumper! It passed its MOT today after extensive mechanical work. Isetta's are very over engineered, two suspension swing arms each side one to hold the wheel hub, the other holds the brake back plate, I had to rebush them all with bronze bushes and reamer them out to fit as well as king pins/ bushes. Replaced all steering bushes, both bronze and rubber. I discovered that many isetta owners do not nip up tight the rubber silentblock bushes but let the pins rotate inside them, the pins are not made to do this , all the movement should be in the rubber flexing, a little slack in each of these joints all adds up to a big chunk of free play at the wheel,no wonder Isetta steering has a poor reputation, its down to the owners letting it all wear out and not setting up correctly! Ok, with it all back to as new its not as sharp as some cars but boy what a difference with it all done! I think me and thumper are going to be happy together.
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three wheels on my wagon !oops back to them pesky injuns ;D
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Surely an Essex injun is a V6 lump of iron used in a Reliant.
I missed all this Microcar branded milarchy. Very good stuff. RUMcar should have 'I'm on the list' stickers.
otherwise
Schmitts 'Overtakers beware! This car does 70 MPH'
Campervaners 'Honk if you cannot see the car on tow'
'A' frame bags made of fake grass.
Punture repair kit for Velorex
Bonds a front wheel indicator so you have some idea which way they are going from parked.
Stuart 'I am not an invalid but I am driving this as I want to be one day' The lad has no fear once he has decided to drive something. Fiat 126 banger racing!!!!
'This is not a Peel. It is a Skid Marks and Spanker Peel'
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ive got one on my robin saying "im a better driver than the stig" lol
"no you dont kickstart it"
yes it has reverse
yes i can go on motorways
why would i want to drive your car
i think your car looks silly too