RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on August 16, 2010, 03:24:13 PM
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Not sure if this has already been mentioned but it looks like the Peels put in there appearance tonight on Dragons den BBC2. Although why a car that was a commercial flop in the sixties because it was undrivable will be a viable investment in the twenty first century is beyond me! Should prove interesting!
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Check out page 20 of the uber gutter filth red top "The Sun"
All there in black and white..
I might do a Scootacar rep! (Joking..)
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I can't watch this show as I am in the US, but it appears that people put together a business plan and then compete with others to get it funded?
I got an email about this that says the business partners have either purchased "the Peel Factory" or "the Peel Name" and plan to make electric cars out of them.
Supposedly the actor James Caan agreed to invest £80,000 in exchange for 1/3 of the business plus one each of the cars according to this article in The SUN:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/3097165/THE-bubble-car-is-back-after-James-Caan-invested-on-Dragons-Den.html (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/3097165/THE-bubble-car-is-back-after-James-Caan-invested-on-Dragons-Den.html)
I would be interested to know if these entrepreneurs actually obtained the rights to the "Peel P50" and "Peel Trident".
I don't know how Trademark law works in the UK but in the US if you let a trademark lapse (don't keep renewing it), someone else CAN register the Brand as THEIR trademark and claim the rights to the Brand.
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Thats almost right Jim but its the dragons or the investors that compete with each other if they spot some potential in a business plan or invention. Also its not James Caan the actor but James Caan the entrepreneur. I was thinking, all genuine Peel owners must be seething and willing the thing to fail as hundreds of electric Peels running around waters down the exclusivity of there own. Surley the thing is a disaster waiting to happen! ::)
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ah not the actor, thank you! :D
also- thanks for the explanation of the show.
I would think that the price of the vehicle would dictate how many of these things become available.
If they are cheap enough, I would say there is some sort of market for them, but not for driving, instead for people to take them to Car Shows and then stick a "Peel P50" sign in front of them and act like it is a P50.
Ripley's can get away with it. Why not someone else?
If enough of them get out there I can see where people might get a bit tired of them though. Especially since they just electric replicas.
Can you register them for road use in the UK?
Also - if they are cheap enough, there are people would would buy them basically as a "novelty" for their collections. Something silly to mess with and show off?
I don't know. :P
I am still curious what the legal deal is with the PEEL ENGINEERING brand and if these guys actually took over the "brand" somehow.
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I’d rather the investment in Peel Engineering gave birth to a new generation Peel, just as BMW launched the new Mini, instead of regurgitating yet more imitations. After all Peel Engineering were innovators and the company should develop as pioneers, because eventually genuine cars will loose there lustre.
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I hate to say told you so but I did suggest obscurely that getting the rights to Peel Engineering was a good move and that a lot of cheap Peels, they are Peels if they are made by Peel Engineering, would affect the values of other Peel type objects. If they own Peel Engineering then they will almost inevitably have the rights to the Peel brand name and badging. Thus anything that is not made by Peel Engineering but calling itself a Peel can be sued for infringing rights. I am slightly pigged off as I was looking at getting the rights myself but was to late. Bummer. But I think they probably paid more than I would for them. Could be interesting to watch the furr fly if they decide to protect the brand.
Following from this it remains to be seen how successful the new Peel Engineering is. If it is selling lecky powered modern versions of the Peel concept then the only fakes of value will be those that accurately mimic the original Peel, unbadged of course, while real IOM Peels will remain as rare as ever. However the new cars will be Peels. Unreal fakes will be a Thingy and not a Peel. I hope the are a success as it will prove my idea was sound even if I was too late!
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I’d rather the investment in Peel Engineering gave birth to a new generation Peel, just as BMW launched the new Mini, instead of regurgitating yet more imitations. After all Peel Engineering were innovators and the company should develop as pioneers, because eventually genuine cars will loose there lustre.
BMW used the Mini name to launch something that bares very little relationship to the Mini concept. On that basis Peel Engineering should look to the Viking as the project of choice. If they own Peel whatever they make is not an imitation Peel. It is just you do not like the idea of more Peel replicas, which I can understand, even if they are real Peels. Confusing 'innit.
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just you do not like the idea of more Peel replicas
If it were down to me I'd burn the lot of them, but that's my opinion. Seriously though I prefer concepts to be developed, for instance I think the basic Porsche design has been developing since the 30's, I like the idea one can trace it's lineage from it's shape. The initial Peel design was a product of it's time and I think the new owners should respect that and be as creative in their approach for 2010.
... So let me get this straight, Microcars albeit small are real cars in their own right, now it seems they're toys for kids.
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turns out it was just an oppertunity for 2 rich men to get even richer selling fake cars that look like something else to amusement parks.not remanufacture of peels
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There was no business plan, James caan took no risk whatsoever as he gets two cars and his money back if it doesnt take off. All it was was a publicity stunt, quite clever really even though they came across as a right pair of chumps!
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Jim. You may be able to watch this using BBC I player http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_two
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Thanks Bob. Not available outside the UK. :'(
so what exactly was their "business plan"?
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Wel this is it, there was no plan, the only figures mentioned were the amount of people that go through the doors at ripleys annually and some mutterings about merchandising, board games and radio controled cars. No turn over/ profit projections, nothing. All the dragons barr one made them look very silly. The clever part was getting a free advert on national TV.
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They began by saying that after selling 2 cars to Ripleys believe it or not, they now have a 2-year exclusive deal to supply a further 14 cars. Later this was clarified to them having sold Ripleys 14 cars in total. They said they built 2 initially for £10k each, then another 20 for £5k each and they have 8 left over. They expect Ripleys to buy another 12 cars. They wanted £80k from investors for "further merchandising opportunities for the brand".
The roadtest says they're would sell them at £12.5K each.
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ooo.. Board Games! I hear the kids will love those!
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‘The first X million people through the door at Ripleys, there’ll be at least one kid that will buy one’…
This pair have completely misunderstood what the product is, it was never a ‘toy’ not even in it’s day was it marketed as such, it was sold to 16 year olds but as a real car for a particular market. Ok there’s still a niche market, but there are also plenty of other miniature cars sold as toys, because they are toys. Obviously it’s cheaper to re-brand an existing product, then build a rival to GWhiz… so who owns the rights for Brutsch!
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Its a funny old business! As Planty said, there are electric toy cars that are sold just about everywhere , little Range rovers and Porches just like dads real one which kids will prefer, the kids will not remember a Peel as being a part of British motoring history and neither will 99.9% of there mums and dads. I grew up in the 1950's, 60's and had never even heard of a Peel until 1995! It will only be a nostalgia thing to a tiny tiny few. I really cant see the thing going further than fulfilling there orders to Ripleys. I'm curious to know how this will effect Andys replica business, is this the end of his reign? Can he still produce cars unbadged or is the body shape protected? Dont know.
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just you do not like the idea of more Peel replicas
If it were down to me I'd burn the lot of them, but that's my opinion. Seriously though I prefer concepts to be developed, for instance I think the basic Porsche design has been developing since the 30's, I like the idea one can trace it's lineage from it's shape. The initial Peel design was a product of it's time and I think the new owners should respect that and be as creative in their approach for 2010.
... So let me get this straight, Microcars albeit small are real cars in their own right, now it seems they're toys for kids.
Correct. But is a genuine Microcar possible to build at an economic rate under modern legislation and marketing regimes? I think not and thus the point becomes that these cars are a product of their age, when there was still freedom to design and innovate rather than comply and convert. Is that why the majority of cars available today are very much the same package with differing badges on. Even Porches are not as interesting as they used to be!
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Intersting item on DD. Analysis correct, James Caan risks nothing. The project is profitable but hamstrung by being tied to a contract. I suspect that might be the Andy Carter effect as why would you do this save to prevent a competitor under pricing you. Having done this the construction of cars can only start at the end of the contract period. So if this is a free advert what was advertised that I can buy? Andy Carter by default?
However the notion that there is a marketing opportunity created by the exposure of Peels by Ripley and the media is correct. I can see that yet I am not so sure you need a Dragon to help. Then we do not know what else these guys are into as businesses. A third share of a lot can be better than half of next to nothing to a busy man. Do not be surprised to see Peels get in some Holywood film or something. The business is there but not as RUMcar see it as we know about the real cars. The buying public know nothing so the image is all and the image is good enough to create interest.
So the two chaps were made to look silly, err that is television guys, that would have been a mornings filming at least. TV is a deal with the devil but sometimes it can be worth it. As an aside I am told that since Top Gear had rolling Reliants on screen there has been a rash of yobbos turning Reliants over, even with the drivers inside, as a 'joke'. Not a great development for trike owners and shows the damage that such programmes cause in the name of entertainment and extra money for the presenters. Thanks Clarkson, you continue to muck up my hobby.
Andy Carter? Should think he is worried enough to lay up a few more shells as this company has been about for sometime and not really harmed him as yet. If they succeed then he makes more of his replicas as Peel Engineering cannot sell theirs on the open market. The worst is he has to call them a Ventnor P50 or something. Otherwise I think he will be doing rather nicely out of this.
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The two guys appear to be not short of a bob or two to start with and didn't really need Jim's 80K otherwise they would not have offered his money back if it failed. These guys were paying people 100 smackers just to bring there peels along to the party last night, does this sound like they need the money?!The conclusion is free advert in advance for future products, remember this program is repeated time and time again on the Dave channel or some other, probably way past the Ripley contract finishing. Or as Al says, get in with a dragon for the sake of other non peel related ventures. Smart guys!
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Dear Friends
Having seen the program it did cross my mind, Who has produced the bodies for the two cars? and who has done the development work for the suspension/ electric drive train. Could it be people we know?
Regarding the sales projections of branded products like toy cars and the like, There is a world wide market for such things which has been expanded by Jeremy C and could expand further. What is to say that they expand into Scmitts and Isetta's with the branding.
There is no way a new road going P50 would ever pass the car safety tests but could possibly get through the Quadricycle regs, but would need some modifying, Therefore these vehicles are destined for non road use. They will be easily distinguished by being electric and their raised awareness could make the total P 50 and Trident market go up. We shall see. It will be interesting to see what happens as it could be a model for other similar projects. Somebody still owns the Bond name and others presumably own the the Nobel and Trojan names.
The Microcar could yet return to the British roads
Chris Thomas
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last i heard was that Jonathan Heynes,the last real manager of Reliant,he who bought it in 1996,and was booted out by his idiotic backers in the late 90s,ownd the bond brand and was last heard to be in charge of the microcar import network,trading as Bond cars,or something very similar
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The Microcar could yet return to the British roads
There are already Microcars on the roads once more, but they’re the modern equivalent, the alternative for Peel would be to enter as a contender instead of the novelty they’re being promoted as. After all image is everything if you truly want the Peel legacy to continue, though the re-brand does little for the pedigree the original designs now have and is more reminiscent of Hamleys toys.