RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: marcus on January 08, 2011, 07:19:04 PM
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Is it a microcar? I do not know, but it is a Morgan, their first 3 wheeler for about 58 years. It also marks their centennial.
Not my favourite engine, but I still love it and I think it would be a brilliant idea for everyone on this forum chip in to buy me one!
http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/sales/three_wheeler/three_wheeler.html
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Do we know the price yet?
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A friend of mine in the Northwest Citroën Owners Club knows Pete Larsen, the founder of Liberty Motors here in Seattle, manufacturer of the Ace Cycle-Car:
http://www.cycle-car.com/ (http://www.cycle-car.com/)
According to a discussion I had with him (the friend, not Larsen) at the Seattle Auto Show, the new Morgan is to be a modified version of the Liberty Ace, as the two companies are now allied in some sort of mutual licensing arrangement. Morgan liked the Ace design so much that they wanted to bring it in-house while Liberty will continue to build its own version, now described as "under license from" Morgan.
Here's the Ace that was in the Seattle Auto Show back in November:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5088/5336297677_8fa4721088.jpg)
along with a completely gratuitous shot of my friend's nearby Citroën nose-to-nose with an odd little green box:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/5336920590_fb71078ec7.jpg)
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I'd heard about £30K, and given that it is morgan... a 3 year waiting list!! looks a fab car. Wonder if it will have the same throb to the engine as the original on the film!! Harley engine and an MX 5 Box! a potent mixture, but will it live up to the thrill of a original JAP or matchless setup? only time will tell...........
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The new Morgan looks wonderful , but it cant compete for me, against the older ones .
perhaps we could have a Grand Rumcars Raffle & one as a prize?
Not sure about the Harley Engine , but I think that the new Morgan could avoid the Congestion Charge .
I think Three wheelers are exempt from the now , £10 per day charge .
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Unless they have changed the rules 3 wheelers DO have to pay CC, except if they are electric. I had a lot of communication with Transport for London over many years, about having an exemption for "Kei" class cars. Japan has had this for over 50 years, where cars below a certain length, width and engine size are exempt on some motoring costs.
TfL's response: We can't do that because nobody has ever thought of doing that and we don't know how to do it because it has never been done before, and even though you are telling us about the Japanese system we know nothing about it so we don't understand what you are telling us and have no idea of how to do such an unknown thing.
Useless, unimaginative buffle-headed bureaucratic dandiprats who cannot sense a good idea when it has been around for half a century and is beating them over the head.
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If you look at the TFL CC web page under discounts and exemptions (Motor Tricycles) you will find the following
Motor tricycles
If you drive a motor tricycle which is one metre or less wide, and two metres or less long, you're eligible for a 100 per cent discount.
To register, apply in writing and enclose photographs of the vehicle (front, back and side) showing the Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) along with a copy of the registration document (V5C) and a £10 registration charge
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You can pay £30k for a real Morgan with a Durdly Hardlison engine which ticks many boxes for those who need boxes ticking. For those who want to have fun I suspect a JZR Guzzi is probably just as good for at least a third the price allowing one to buy a Messerschmitt and a modern puddle jumper for when it is cold, all second hand and VAT free. Still I am pleased Morgan are looking at diversification as they are our big manufacturer now and have to take on the might of China and other pacific rim countries on their own. I expect they are at Downing Street today pledging to employ one and a half unwanted civil servants as crevice inspectors in the great Tory job reallocation scam.
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Dear Marcus and Karonut
Looking at the 1.0 m wide and 2.0 m long parameters, which three wheelers would coply? If we can compile a list I will happily publish in in Rumcar News.
Chris Thomas
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I would have thought hardly anything worth driving into town in. Peels, cursor, Bamby, those modern Piagio scooters with two wheels at the front, Larmer, Inter with its wheels folded in! TFL have thought about it and came up with these dimensions to make sure that nobody bother apply.
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Dear Bob
Perhaps we should design one that does meet the parameters and is perhaps 1.8 m tall so it just gets under the height barriers.
I think your (ex) Inter is an inspiration as I am not clear if it has to be 1.0 m wide at all times. It could be said that when you open a car door it is perhaps actually 3m wide. Similarly is the 1.0m wide just when it is parked as all motorbikes on full left or right lock are wider than when pointing straight ahead. Remember the Renault city thingy that was longer when it went along and tucked the rear wheels underneath when parked.
What we need is two wheels at the front, that have a system like the Reyonnah such that as you get faster so it gets wider and lower to the ground. Electric disc motor in the rear wheel with batteries stored on either side of the large diameter rear wheel and between the front wheels. Single driving position with load space, over the rear wheel and over the front wheels. All the weight low down, nice sit up and beg driving position. The sides would be flat with slightly rounded corners to make full use of the available space.
What do you think?
Chris Thomas
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I think you should go for it Chris. Really though its all irrelivant now as "normal cars are qualifying for exemption anyway. Who will bother with a G-wiz now that the new Fiat 500 twin air will be exempt from the congestion charge this year? I have just been reading its spec, it sounds like it will out perform the 4 pot model in all areas and is just 875cc.
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I really think TfL missed a trick by not exempting Smart cars, they are popular, safe, ideal for commuting and acceptably stylish. They use up very little parking space, and really are a true modern bubble/micro car, but with modern standards of safety, comfort and performance. If TfL had bothered to notice them and make them exempt I think they would have had a HUGE impact on commuters' cars. As it is London still has an exceptionally high number of huge executive barges and 4 wheel drives visiting every day, and using up a huge amount of road and parking space just for one person and a lap top.
TfL's response to my suggestion of exempting Smart cars "We cannot do that because no-one has asked us to do it and we don't know how to do it because it has never been done before" etc etc etc ad nauseam (see my previous comments about Kei cars)
TfL are claim to be keen on reducing CONGESTION...i.e. more vehicles than road space, so what do they do? Get rid of double decker buses (which take a large number of people around on relatively little road space) and introduce bendy buses which use up more than double the road space. Doh!
TfL are such stupid morons they have even decided it is a good idea to start fitting all traffic lights with shutters in front of them so drivers cannot see what colour the lights are. Next up "Invisible Stripes" on Zebra Crossings so no-one knows where they are?
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Looking at the 1.0 m wide and 2.0 m long parameters, which three wheelers would coply? If we can compile a list I will happily publish in in Rumcar News.
Chris Thomas
Motorise a load of the blue chemi karsis. Ideal for when stuck in a traffic jam and your taken short. Just like Doctor Who, who will be OK for free access too, you can park pretty much anywhere as well.
Why is the place not infested with those Zimmer trolleys on long range battery pods?
Kei class cars, silly boy, asking a sensible question like that when it is a question of revenue not transportation. Course they do not know the answer. Just like replacing DD buses with bendy ones only to find they block up the junctions more. Spot Bots know the answers to nothing other than keeping their jobs as useless bastards which we pay for out of their ridiculous and ineffective ideas as extra taxation.
How about using road registered Lawn Mower racer. Make the commute home on Friday a great deal more fun.
Personally I think the Shires ought to charge Londoners to come out of the M25 ring so as to get some recompense for all the money they waste for us out in carrot crunching land. This would be a prior step to declaring Wessex independant with the seat of Government back in Winchester complete with Government /mayoral Zundapp Janus limos etc.
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Morning Marcus. Do I sense a slight straine in your relations with Transport for London? :D The congestion charge from the start was only going to be a money raising exercise anyway so dont expect there to be any logic there.
Back to the New Morgan, I had a chance to study the Ace website last night and it looks quite an impressive car. I wonder what the impact will be on the other kit car makes like BRA which are from what I can make out only just about surviving. Will it raise the profile and create healthy competion of wipe them out altogether? I wonder what proportion of the 200 orders for the new car are for export to the USA? It could be that we will scarcly see any in the uk?
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Oh yes Morgan, I knew we were talking about something other than rant material.
The Dudley Hardidyson unit would seem to be the obvious choice despite the JAP bits still being made. How much to build a JAP to conform to modern rules and by how much would the blatability be neutered. If you want a Morgan like that you have to get an old one. I think that is as it should be. What other easy available V twin is out there? I have never got the Bo Didley Hardson noise thing, myself. It sounds unbalanced. Maybe its like Reggie which is kind of wrong if you like rock but it still works somehow. (Now really I would like a Trike with a Reggie engine beat. That would be cool.)
Of more interest will be if they change the size of the machine for rich botty cheeks to fit in. The big prob with most trikes of the Morgan inspired style is they do not go for staggered seating with offset so as to allow the weight distributing to be correct. This immediately compromises use. Clearly slight folks will be able to use the things better and faster but more to the point you restrict your market. Since Morgan got this right yonks ago I have never understood quite why the idea is now ignored.
I have considered various modern editions of the Morgan idea and the Triking is the best but in the main most fail for the ultimate in performance when you are a large guy. The option is to create a single seater or base a modern component car on the Schmitt concept. Ultimately the Schmitt concept is better but no one has yet grasped the nettle to produce a radicule version of a schmitt with 80 bhp up its chuff. Perhaps that is a good thing as incidents would follow. Better to leave the nutters with the tuned old Morgans as they find places to use them which tend to be 'safe' there being enough of them to club together.
Does this new Morgan do anything to move the cause of Microcars forward. Probably not. Neither do idiots who refuse to recognize the value of the Kie class cars in urban situations as they can do the occasional run to Wales or what ever that the so called green cars cannot. The challenge is to manipulate fuel resources and technology to a broader based common fuel allowing renewable resources to phase in rather than pretending moving pollution to the power station is green.
What the Morgan hopefully will do is keep Morgan going, exporting and owners happy. Not sure it does much more than that but it sounds good enough to me.
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What puzzles me most about the Morgan is why they felt obliged to base their new 3 wlr on a car which is so clearly inspired by,
er,
a Morgan!
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Most likely its because ace has has done all the development work for them and its ok to use in the us. Saved them a packet. All Morgan have to do is transfer production, stick a Morgan badge on it and pretend that an all American car is a true blue British traditional product which it aint! I would have liked to have seen them develop there own modern version even if they did have no choice other than use a dumper truck engine. I must confess though that it does look the part!
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Why all this talk about a vehicle that is definitely not a Microcar? You'll be chatting about Motorhomes soon, well they do seem to go with microcars!!!! ;D
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Dear Rob
I sort of agree with you. If they produced a new Morgan three wheeler with an engine under 700cc then it would be worth talking about, but as it is just a replica of a three wheeler with a big lump on the front, what is unusual about that? Of course if it was a replica of a Gordon, or a modern day reincarnation, that would be different matter.
Chris T
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LOL :D :D rest assured no one will EVER replicate a Gordon . the wonderful machine that carries that proud name will never be watered down by replicas ;)
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no one has yet grasped the nettle to produce a radicule version of a schmitt with 80 bhp up its chuff.
A genuine question: would that actually be nice, or even usable?
I was interested to see that the Eco-Exo (http://eco-exo.com/) three-wheeler with a Suzuki Burgman scooter power unit with 'only' 50hp at most has a hard time staying on three wheels. OK it's front wheels are too far ahead of the driver (unlike the Messerschmitt), but it is pretty low so stability should be fair.
I appreciate some may feel controlling tipover is part of the skill of driving a three-wheeler, but in a new design that's pretty unnacceptable - "Yes, Sir, many drivers do think brakes are necessary, but we feel one of the many delights of piloting the Throckley Sprocket is acquiring all the skills of our predecessors" doesn't cut the mustard, does it?
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LOL :D :D rest assured no one will EVER replicate a Gordon . the wonderful machine that carries that proud name will never be watered down by replicas ;)
Gordon's ALIVE!
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[A genuine question: would that actually be nice, or even usable?
I
Why not? The front suspension would need to be clever and possibly it would need to be a bit like the Jeffcot Special but the arrangement is mid engined three wheeler. The key issue is weight distribution and that is where conflict would be met with the clipboard types I suspect.