RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Rob Dobie on October 13, 2011, 06:43:31 PM
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Back in 1976 I restored a Tourette. First photo shows it just after swapping it for a 600 Panther/Double Adult Combination. Second photo is after restoration all sprayed up in it's Ford Red colour. I also made the hood and sidescreens from double duck. It was sold in 1977 fully road legal to Malcolm Goldsworthy along with my Peels and other micros. I wonder who has it now?
When looking on Elvis' 3-wheeler site I saw a picture showing it as used to be owned by a Bob Gale? I have also spotted it in various books. The Reg. No. isn't listed on the dvla site so has it been stripped of its registration. Is it lurking in an old barn anywhere? Does anyone know of its fate? If the owner is out there, I have various old photos they may wish to have.
I believe there are three left, "mine", the one in Jean's collection and another somewhere in Kent.
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Hi Rob. Malcolm still owns it!
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I quite like the two-tone paintjob, was that the original colour?
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no brutsches were only ever one colour . tee hee ;D
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THere are two parts of one that was subject to a bad debt in the West country. All rather sad really.
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looks as if you made a nice job of the hood and screens
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Hi Rob. Malcolm still owns it!
Who on Earth is Bob Gale then?
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I quite like the two-tone paintjob, was that the original colour?
No. The red bottom was original gell coat colour and the orange top coat, YUKY-YUK-YUK, looked as if it it had been put on with a tar brush. It took hours to rub down by hand. The only 'power tool' I had in those days was a large 1935 air compressor and cheap spray gun. Also used it on one of my Peels and a Mk 2 Scootacar now in Story Museum. Scans from 1976 prints.
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I can only guess that Bob Gale is Bob Dobie, someone got there wires crossed.
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This is the page from Elvis' site. http://www.3wheelers.com/tourette.html I never sent him the photo, it's the first time I've seen it. Looking at the yard where it's parked I wonder if the photo came from Malcolm Thomas as he picked up the car from a yard that was opposite where I had just moved to in '77. Last picture I have of Tourette being taken away.
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Thanks for the info and some great photos.
I came across this sales brochure on ebay whilst looking for some more pictures
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290559555264 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290559555264)
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If you email me a very good scan (or send the photos) I can bring a bit of life back into them for you.
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I quite like the two-tone paintjob, was that the original colour?
AS Rob said the two tone wasn't original on that car but according to the brochure the "Senior model " could be ordered in dual tone in any combination of the stock colours which were Ivory, red or blue so I guess you could have red and white or blue and white. I have a copy of the crudely produced brochure which is just a typed document with sketch drawings but gives amazing detail as to the cars construction and the variation in which you could order one. 8E or 9E engines, hard top, soft top ,hardtop with role down centre panel etc. Compared with the launch of the Nobel with all the glamour models and glossy brochures the Tourettes launch was rather pathetic and maybe the reason why not many were produced. Two things do come out of reading through the period literature though, its emphasised many times that the car is all British and also that these cars WERE referred to as MICROCARS even in the 1950's which contradicts something said recently I think by Dan who was under the impression along with myself that this was more of a modern term.
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sorry to disagree again BUT this does NOT " emphasise many times that the car is all british ...." far from it actually .
it does state " produced in Britain " once ! it does refer to continental style and the french magazine refers to it as " plus continental"
now who is being unbiased Bob ?
dont doubt the next bit , it will be interesting to pin down possible first use of the term microcar. copy is poor and i cant find it , who said it , a magazine or Carrs ?
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Dear Bob and Malcolm
According to Tony's excellent book the factory was little more than an assembly plant for both the Tourette and the Progress scooters. The engines were Villiers, but do we know who would have made the GRP body, and who would have made the chassis, as there was no welding bay in the factory and no room for GRP moulds. Apart from the wheels, tyres, electrics and glass which were probably all British, what else is there that could be anything other than British?
Interesting to see that the sales address was 852 Brighton Road, which was next to the old Purley Hospital, while the factory backed onto the railway line in Whytecliffe Road.
Chris Thomas
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If anyone is interested, Tony wrote about the Tourettes history in one of his 'Featured Car' articles in No. 83, Winter 2004 issue of Rumcar News, plus a piece by myself. A Mr Roberts was responsible for welding up the tubes to make the chassis. I believe you can still get copies from Jean.
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THE DESIGN chris THE DESIGN !!
whose malcolm is that bob gales brother :)
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sorry to disagree again BUT this does NOT " emphasise many times that the car is all british ...." far from it actually .
it does state " produced in Britain " once ! it does refer to continental style and the french magazine refers to it as " plus continental"
now who is being unbiased Bob ?
dont doubt the next bit , it will be interesting to pin down possible first use of the term microcar. copy is poor and i cant find it , who said it , a magazine or Carrs ?
Thats because I wasnt talking about that particular document. There you go again, jumping to erroneous conclusions! I have emailed you the documents but here is just a sample.
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Early use of the term MICROCAR from scooter magazine 1956
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Dear Bob and Malcolm
According to Tony's excellent book the factory was little more than an assembly plant for both the Tourette and the Progress scooters. The engines were Villiers, but do we know who would have made the GRP body, and who would have made the chassis, as there was no welding bay in the factory and no room for GRP moulds. Apart from the wheels, tyres, electrics and glass which were probably all British, what else is there that could be anything other than British?
Interesting to see that the sales address was 852 Brighton Road, which was next to the old Purley Hospital, while the factory backed onto the railway line in Whytecliffe Road.
Chris Thomas
The workshop layout does show an existing body shop so maybe thats where they made them. As Rob said Mr Roberts made the chassis else where. Interestingly jean has a copy of a job description explaining all that would be required of the applicant which included purchasing all the tubing, cutting, fabrication and welding. I dont suppose we will ever know all the details but we have quite a lot thanks to Jean and Edwins relationship with Mr Merkelt family. currently the evidence that it was made under license from Brutsch is zero! I have been all over the Tourette and the only foriegn parts I could find were the brake drums which are KR200 , this is not suprising as Carrs were agents for supplying schmitts anyway so the spares were handy! All other parts are British.
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Dear Bob
The Layout of the factory in Tony's book does not show a body shop, but says along the botton edge PRESENT PANEL SHOP, this shows that the building was the body panel repair shop for Carr's garage and this is how it will be laid out for the assembly of the Tourette and scooters. Well that is the way I read it.
The factory building is not all that big about 9m x 15m. and still exists
I would be very suprised if they did the GRP body work in house as it is very dusty.
Chris Thomas
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Hi Rob. Malcolm still owns it!
Who on Earth is Bob Gale then?
He is making a gust appearance on 'Progress Supreme Toilet. This is your Lifeboy' with his brother Malcolm. Sorry I have had a bad day and that's the best I can manage at the moment.
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sorry to disagree again BUT this does NOT " emphasise many times that the car is all british ...." far from it actually .
it does state " produced in Britain " once ! it does refer to continental style and the french magazine refers to it as " plus continental"
now who is being unbiased Bob ?
dont doubt the next bit , it will be interesting to pin down possible first use of the term microcar. copy is poor and i cant find it , who said it , a magazine or Carrs ?
A task for the full Oxford Dickie, Lightweight Dictionary. Owwww!
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I have been all over the Tourette and the only foriegn parts I could find were the brake drums which are KR200 , this is not suprising as Carrs were agents for supplying schmitts anyway so the spares were handy! All other parts are British.
I wonder why they did not use the Sachs engine? I assume cost as it would be an import but in building the Progress there must have been good coms with Sachs. So were the Villiers engineering combine used for any other outsourcing? A suggestion for the bodies would be the ever name changing but at one time part of Super Accessories who made all sorts of GRP shells for specials etc. Certainly South of London there were little companies doing special autos, bits etc all over the place.
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this subject must have bored some no end, but i still enjoy the subject . so for a little longer.
Bob why are you SO defensive of Tourette design ? i have NEVER said or even suggested that the tourette was licensed from Bruetsch ( and i have looked back at every post i have ever made on the subject )
i have only ever said that they obviously are so close that the two designs cannot have come about independently and that one or both designers must have been aware of the other. I MEAN BOB HAVE YOU SEEN THE REAR LIGHT MOUNTINGS ! they are identical to victoria spatz as well. this being a modified Bruetsch design . mr. merkelt must have seen the victoria spatz or visa versa - they are the same . smell the coffee bob
thanks for the email ( it was the same as posted here but easier to read) first use possibly of micro car and microcar in one article, 1956 unless you know better
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Dear Bob
The Layout of the factory in Tony's book does not show a body shop, but says along the botton edge PRESENT PANEL SHOP, this shows that the building was the body panel repair shop for Carr's garage and this is how it will be laid out for the assembly of the Tourette and scooters. Well that is the way I read it.
The factory building is not all that big about 9m x 15m. and still exists
I would be very suprised if they did the GRP body work in house as it is very dusty.
Chris Thomas
It was just a thought Chris, as you say that is a rather small area for all that to be going on in!
About the choice of engine, I guess the Villiers would have been cheaper, according to one source Villiers had to approve of the finished prototype before allowing continued use of there engines! Apparently they were satisfied.
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this subject must have bored some no end, but i still enjoy the subject . so for a little longer.
Bob why are you SO defensive of Tourette design ? i have NEVER said or even suggested that the tourette was licensed from Bruetsch ( and i have looked back at every post i have ever made on the subject )
i have only ever said that they obviously are so close that the two designs cannot have come about independently and that one or both designers must have been aware of the other. I MEAN BOB HAVE YOU SEEN THE REAR LIGHT MOUNTINGS ! they are identical to victoria spatz as well. this being a modified Bruetsch design . mr. merkelt must have seen the victoria spatz or visa versa - they are the same . smell the coffee bob
thanks for the email ( it was the same as posted here but easier to read) first use possibly of micro car and microcar in one article, 1956 unless you know better
Hi Richard. I thought I sent you five pages of stuff in a PDF file? Shall I send you them again seperatley? As I said in a previous email, I'm a fan of Brutsch and so would be not bothered in the least if the cars were related but I'm interested in the truth and as also previously stated the Tourette was designed by Merkelt before Brutsch was on the scene so if any copying was done it must have been the other way around. My point is that The original shape of the Tourette was drawn up in the mid forties, by the time it came to production in 56 the builders may well has clapped there eyes on a Victoria spatz and thought I think we will set our tail lights in like they have and then again they may not have.All I'm trying to do is dispell the myth that Brutsch designed the Tourette because it is simply not true. I know you didnt say that it was prduced under license but the erroneous piece of lit that you quoted did as I recall so thats why I harped on about it. Anyway, I guess you are either dafter than you look ;D ;or are just trying to wind me up.
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a bit of both really ;) anyway you are a bit selective . the australian article that mentioned bruetsch you dismissed out of hand and yet you accept every word of the other articles that dont . included are the articles that say all british . then in another breath you mention messerschmitt wheels used by Carrs . i have only one other point to make on the similarities . MY BRUETSCH , AND POSSIBLY ALL BRUETSCHES, USE MKO WHEELS AS DO TOURETTE. another AMAZING COINCIDENCE .
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I note you chose not to select the point already made that Carr brothers were agents for supplying Messerschmitts and thus held stock spares, little wonder they used what they already had! Amazing coincidence? I think not!!!!!
No wonder I have no hair on my head, its all the banging it against the brick wall whilst trying to reason with you!! ;D ;D ;D Anyway, this is my last word, think what you want, messerschmitts are made from ww2 aircraft left overs, Isettas have no reverse gear, Apollo 11 didnt really land on the moon and Brutsch designed the Tourette! I'm done!
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Cor, I wish I hadn't started this thread now. HO HO. ;D
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Dont fret Rob, Richard and I are old friends and have been ribbing each other ever since we went to Story together in 2000.
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you only hurt the ones you love ;D
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a bit of both really ;) anyway you are a bit selective . the australian article that mentioned bruetsch you dismissed out of hand and yet you accept every word of the other articles that dont . included are the articles that say all british . then in another breath you mention messerschmitt wheels used by Carrs . i have only one other point to make on the similarities . MY BRUETSCH , AND POSSIBLY ALL BRUETSCHES, USE MKO WHEELS AS DO TOURETTE. another AMAZING COINCIDENCE .
MKE made wheels and suspension for caravans and trailers to. So you did not need to be a Messerschmitt agent to trade with them. Is there evidence of a Tourette being exported......After all Porsche designed the VW Beetle didn't he. Well, no he did not. A settlement payment tells is it was Hans Ludwinke actually but history tends to still ignore the fact.
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is that Hans Ledwinke that redesigned the Bruetsch /victoria spatz ? and the tourette back light mountings ;)
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Which models does Bruce Wiener have in his museum?
Do they affect your count of known cars?
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i think bruce weiner has all the common microcars but - without being funny -and i mean this does he have anything very rare at all, i would say not other than owning 2 out of 6 surviving avolettes , the only , a very rare Burgfalke - a victoria spatz by another name . but apart from that anything rare ? getting a bit monty python perhaps . he doesnt have a Tourette, a bruetsch Zwerg or Spatz or Pfeil , V2 , V2N or whatever because these are UNUSUAL MICROCARS . or even a Gordon . generally i believe his collection is well known . he does own 2 very rare left hand drive Bond Mark A's and i own one too - all have yet to be restored.
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i think bruce weiner has all the common microcars but - without being funny -and i mean this does he have anything very rare at all, i would say not other than owning 2 out of 6 surviving avolettes , the only , a very rare Burgfalke - a victoria spatz by another name . but apart from that anything rare ? getting a bit monty python perhaps . he doesnt have a Tourette, a bruetsch Zwerg or Spatz or Pfeil , V2 , V2N or whatever because these are UNUSUAL MICROCARS . or even a Gordon . generally i believe his collection is well known . he does own 2 very rare left hand drive Bond Mark A's and i own one too - all have yet to be restored.
Well, I have been to the museum, and he does have quite a few rarities. He has a few 1 off vehicules, a Coronet, a Nobel (75 surviving!), a full size Eshelmann, couple of Inters (about 25 surviving I think, Bob can correct me there), and more...
The 1 off's are prototypes or ones that people made themselves in there garage.
A lot of the rare ones are still on the "shelves" ready to be restored. I remember his Nobel had a sunroof in it, but I saw it before I was an anorak ;) (I saw it about 4 years ago!). You lot probably know they never had them. Think again! It is the only one I know that had a sunrof, so maybe Bruce's Nobel is this special one!
(http://www.nobel200.com/uploads/4/1/3/9/4139669/2357559.png?646)
JP
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i think bruce weiner has all the common microcars but - without being funny -and i mean this does he have anything very rare at all, i would say not other than owning 2 out of 6 surviving avolettes , the only , a very rare Burgfalke - a victoria spatz by another name . but apart from that anything rare ? getting a bit monty python perhaps . he doesnt have a Tourette, a bruetsch Zwerg or Spatz or Pfeil , V2 , V2N or whatever because these are UNUSUAL MICROCARS . or even a Gordon . generally i believe his collection is well known . he does own 2 very rare left hand drive Bond Mark A's and i own one too - all have yet to be restored.
Well, I have been to the museum, and he does have quite a few rarities. He has a few 1 off vehicules, a Coronet, a Nobel (75 surviving!), a full size Eshelmann, couple of Inters (about 25 surviving I think, Bob can correct me there), and more...
The 1 off's are prototypes or ones that people made themselves in there garage.
A lot of the rare ones are still on the "shelves" ready to be restored. I remember his Nobel had a sunroof in it, but I saw it before I was an anorak ;) (I saw it about 4 years ago!). You lot probably know they never had them. Think again! It is the only one I know that had a sunrof, so maybe Bruce's Nobel is this special one!
(http://www.nobel200.com/uploads/4/1/3/9/4139669/2357559.png?646)
JP
Nobel anorak time... You can see the Nobel prototype on a phot in the back (its the car on the right), in english, but the rest is in french. This means the picture was maybe took in Paris, since they brought the Nobel to the Paris auto show in '58 or '59.
Other question... Is it a Nobel, or a Nobel badged Fuldamobil? They made lhd Nobel's, but the early cars (that they used for the ads) where mostly Fuldamobils, they just stuck a Nobel badge on!
Anorak signing out.
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i think bruce weiner has all the common microcars but - without being funny -and i mean this does he have anything very rare at all, i would say not other than owning 2 out of 6 surviving avolettes , the only , a very rare Burgfalke - a victoria spatz by another name . but apart from that anything rare ? getting a bit monty python perhaps . he doesnt have a Tourette, a bruetsch Zwerg or Spatz or Pfeil , V2 , V2N or whatever because these are UNUSUAL MICROCARS . or even a Gordon . generally i believe his collection is well known . he does own 2 very rare left hand drive Bond Mark A's and i own one too - all have yet to be restored.
The only LHD Trident is sort of rare. As in the only one ever built. How rare do you want?
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I have a car so rare I have not even built it yet but its worth thousands.
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I have a car so rare I have not even built it yet but its worth thousands.
You too?
Mine is like a Bugatti royale, just diffent. not soure wexactly, havent made it yet ;)
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Could that be the fabled Bugatti Revolution with Marxist injection? The ideal popular alternative to the Royale, allegedly.