RUMCars Forum

General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on January 13, 2012, 03:48:51 PM

Title: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 13, 2012, 03:48:51 PM
not much  Bond interest on this site generally but here goes . Robbs Garage Wallasey 1950's - 60's
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on January 13, 2012, 03:59:38 PM
Well at least one Bond lover here is very happy to see these pics. Thanks for posting :) Lot's of Bond C's and D's and no later models so probably 1956
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: marcus on January 13, 2012, 04:03:57 PM
Not particularly a Bond fan, but still like seeing those pics!
Funny, on my wide screen monitor the Bonds look really long and sleek, almost American!
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 13, 2012, 04:25:41 PM
yep . two new mark D's in the small showroom on the left and one on trade plates in the middle outside as well  (- though i am told that some late C's had that smaller front grill too) the Business is still there servicing " normal cars " under the same management third generation now , second generation Graham Robb a recent Bond Club member at my instigation . he is now 70 odd and not been into micro's for many a year . The garage was a main dealer with Graham and or his father travelling up to the Preston factory by train and returning with new cars , usually loaded with spares . The garage became a hub of local activity with up to a dozen ( twelve, for younger listeners ;D ) cars turning up lunchtime saturday to tire kick, chat and see what was new . that probably explains the amount of cars outside .
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on January 13, 2012, 04:31:02 PM
Here's some views of it as it is now (or at least in 2009) from Google.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on January 13, 2012, 04:32:51 PM
Not changed a huge amount
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 13, 2012, 04:39:31 PM
behind the shutters , the old showroom , is now an immaculately restored MGA ex-california . to my mind a bit too pretty in turquoise sshhhhhh Rob's recent passion , he now seems keen to return to the fold  ;)
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: marcus on January 13, 2012, 04:41:46 PM
I love MGAs!
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 13, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
interesting four wheeler in the first photo . what must have been, even then surely ,- an old perambulator
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Big Al on January 14, 2012, 09:48:13 AM
Bonds and Singers, judging by the banner board on the garage. An unusual mix or did the Singer agency pre-date the Bond.

Sounds like a 'proper' garage if it had owners grouping there in mutual support etc. Great. The sort of garage that is hard to find now and to cherish.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 12:14:52 PM
over the years almost all cars have lost their character. bikes on the other hand still retain a bit of the old magic . many the saturday morning when my mate adam and i will still meet up at Bill Smiths motorcycles in Chester and see whats new , help ourselves to a complimentary hot chocolate from the free vending machine and chew the fat before a run out into wales . how i would love to go back in time and be one of the Bond owners meeting at Robbs before a run out .
i held this picture back al. just spotted the collision damaged rear offside wing to the E/F Bond in the workshop - OUCH
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: wilksie on January 14, 2012, 01:33:30 PM
What delightful old photos! Keep posting them. Please!
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 02:39:19 PM
run out !! someone else must have something on celluloid concerning the old dealers . makes you think maybe RUM ought to try and save what can be saved now . might have got myself a job  ;)
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Barry on January 14, 2012, 04:43:04 PM
Boosted the colour a bit.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 05:02:51 PM
thanks - much better lets see what dating clues we can see now then  :)
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Barry on January 14, 2012, 05:05:51 PM
Had a play with the B&W photos
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: wilksie on January 14, 2012, 05:49:28 PM
thanks - much better lets see what dating clues we can see now then  :)

Ok - I'll start: 1965 or later.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 05:53:10 PM
reasons ? why so late ?
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: wilksie on January 14, 2012, 06:08:27 PM
The Singer Gazelle is C reg = 1965. The other cars don't add much info: Countryman 1961 - 1969. Minicar Mark F (?) 1958 - 1963. BTW Green Shield stamps were offered 1958 - 1991, and the first MOT test was introduced in 1960. (Of course I looked it up).
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 06:45:07 PM
i also looked it all up and came to exactly the same conclusion . Whats BTW ? ;) albeit with slightly different info. singer gazelle 55/67 - c reg '65 .austin countryman/morris traveller march '60 on. green shield 58-91.Regent petrol pre re branding to texaco in  67-69. Bond scooters '58 on . MOT station '60 on. Bond E/F cant tell which wheel size so '58 on . Both the Singer and the mini are brand new cars - spotless wheelarches . with research could pin down that singers reg. no. a bit
great fun - next photo please  :)
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Barry on January 14, 2012, 06:52:54 PM
You are just talking about the colour photo?
B&W is earlier with different petrol pumps and no MOT sign.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 06:55:08 PM
yes wilksie and I are on the colour photo now
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: wilksie on January 14, 2012, 07:20:58 PM
Sorry - BTW as in 'by the way'. Shouldn't be using silly text language. The colour photo states ... Distributors Bond Minicars. The last one was produced in 1966. After that date the garage sign would have been redundant but it's quite possible that they didn't take the sign down for a while. It's tempting to date the pic 1965 - 1966 but not entirely certain.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 14, 2012, 07:36:38 PM
ditto with STD codes 63/79 but signs were not updated for years . loads of clues there in one small picture arent there
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: wilksie on January 14, 2012, 09:44:53 PM
The Gazelle's registration AHF 853C is a Wallasey issued number from January 1965 onwards, which presumably is consistent with the phone number Wall 1384. One could speculate that it was the garage owner's car. Interestingly in the colour photograph the garage sign reads Bond Minicars and the car on the drive is a Singer, whilst the sign in the B&W photographs says Singer Main Dealer but the cars on the drive are Bonds. So many details indeed.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Big Al on January 15, 2012, 09:37:02 AM
A good garage dropping a Singer dealership is going to still have all the Singer owners coming for work on their cars. I find it surprising as a business decision to go to Bonds though. A Singer owner is not going to buy a Bond so it means finding a new customer base unless there is more to the Robbs Garage business than we see in these pictures. My only thought is perhaps the Singer dealers at some point had to encompass the Rootes range which Robbs could not do due to the size of their premises. Thus the garage would have become an independent Singer / Rootes service and acquisition contact but needed a smaller manufacturer to be an agent for to keep the business healthy. What better than the relatively local Preston based Bond marque?

A similar thing happened here to Anne's Garage' which was Hillman I think. That become Rootes and they linked and then took over one of the other garage premises which did Standard? up till then to have the area to fill the contract. Later Rootes got into trouble and got evolved with a string of manuvers. The upshot is today what was Anne's garage is now part of Faringdon Garages trading in Peugeot off two sites having seen off all but two independent garage workshops, selling two other sites for redevelopment and another as a shop. I know one was Ford and the Enterprise was BMC as we have some of the old signage. This is how all the little garages and local trade was rolled up.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 15, 2012, 06:51:21 PM
Robbs did have another shop in nearby Birkenhead specialising in three wheelers and scooters so that explains the shift i think . Grahams dad sold Gordons as well , although " only three or four " yet Graham doesnt remember the factory anly three miles away . The Bond factory , 60 miles away by train , and many of the staff are well remembered . They surprisingly used to get quite a few crash damaged cars and often had to rebuild entire front ends . The sturdy mark A/B aluminium engine cradles would be smashed and the new ones were supplied ex-factory undrilled so they were drilled at the repair depot - quite a job !
i suppose engine maintenance was within the scope of most ex-motorcycle owners so only body repairs needed help. accidents possibly more common as being driven on a motorcycle licence no car driving lessons would have been taken ?

attached pic of crash damaged engine mount , Bond A/B , and factory replacement supplied undrilled
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on January 16, 2012, 12:07:52 AM

i suppose engine maintenance was within the scope of most ex-motorcycle owners so only body repairs needed help. accidents possibly more common as being driven on a motorcycle licence no car driving lessons would have been taken ?


It might also have had something to do with their - even for the time - notable lack of braking ability. - 67ft at 30mph in the test they did on the Mark A in "The Motor"
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Bob Purton on January 16, 2012, 10:17:41 AM
I think Rustry chrome is right, even the mkC and D I owned were deficient in the braking department. If you wanted to stop you had to inform the brakes in writing and wait for a response by second class post! I loved the cars all the same though and would like another if one came my way.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: NickPoll on January 16, 2012, 10:52:08 AM
The Bond D is a brilliant little car. It's got the style of the C, but vastly improved mechanics: 12volts, Siba dynastart, 4 gears, stronger rear syspension, you can fit a 250cc top end on a D motor, but not a C.  I own a D 2-seater and it's totally reliable, comfy and will maintain about 50mph ( it's got the 250cc conversion ). I love it.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Big Al on January 16, 2012, 11:30:15 AM
D souped up is really only bettered by something like Nick Price's Mk G twin which managed to hussle my twin box Goggomobil 300 with 400cc gearing all the way from Cheltenham to Toddington. That Goggo was known to cruise happily at 60 mph and leave Schmitts behind so we would been in advance of that. An impressive Bond but not as pretty as a D tourer, which would be my choice of the bunch as well.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Bob Purton on January 16, 2012, 04:01:45 PM
I'm not a fan of modified cars[says he who is currently building a special!] but the 250 villiers barrel conversion seems reasonable and invisible as I recall?
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on January 16, 2012, 04:53:19 PM
I think this is overboard myself - Jag powered with Shorrock Blower.

From http://oldstox.com/EarlyBritishDragRacing.htm (http://oldstox.com/EarlyBritishDragRacing.htm)
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 16, 2012, 07:11:24 PM
do any of those Bonds in the first photo still appear on DVLA ? and apart from *HF wallasey they were registered *CA - Denbighshire just over the border into Wales 30 miles away and strangely *ME Middlesex - hundreds of miles away ! if anyone knows can they tell me if my first legal bike suzuki AS50 does ? HHF684H (i think  ??? )Incidentally Bobs old yellow schmitt FCM was first registered in Rock Ferry ( Birkenhead ) sold by a different dealer, Bob Simister I think . Bobs schmitt passed through my hands briefly in an awful  state before reaching Bob , i sold it to buy the Bruetsch - time will tell if i did the right thing long term :-\ but at the time i was disillusioned with the "help" offerred by the MOC.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Bob Purton on January 16, 2012, 09:12:40 PM
Yes, so was I but the MEC came up trumps! Besides, my policy is restore the vehicle first, worry about red tape afterwards.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Big Al on January 17, 2012, 11:12:39 AM
Yes, so was I but the MEC came up trumps! Besides, my policy is restore the vehicle first, worry about red tape afterwards.

Ran out of red tape but we have this none standard black stuff that sort of fits at more money so we can take the piss out of your car when you exhibit it having bought our red tap from a secret source. Mind you the MOC know nothing about Breutschs so on balance your probably better off.

I wonder if there was ever a firm called Simister Dexter? The left handed dyslexic Roman might not have known what the right was doing.

So is that a Jaguar C type or a D type? Crumbago!
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Bob Purton on January 17, 2012, 01:34:13 PM
I'd say Crimebago!
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 17, 2012, 05:20:23 PM
maybe a crime but at least it's well punctuated , a rarity on here  ;) , it does have a COMMER after it , doesn't it  ;D
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 17, 2012, 06:20:41 PM
dragging one last bit of info out of the B/W photos . the garage was displaying the large yellow and black AA enamel sign . i looked in my 1949/50 AA book (matches my 1949 Bond A ) and the design was only displayed at garages offering free breakdown service .apparently this service was complementary to those members paying the full subscription of 2 guineas a year . motorcyclists and owners of three-wheel cars paying the reduced rate of 1 guinea were not so covered !

in the wallasey area there were 4 Morris dealers , inc. Robbs , but only one Singer agent - hence the Singer signage ?


on the issue of Bonds being likely to be involved in accidents due to poor braking we can't argue really . but to be fair in those days brake lights were not compulsory , this changed i think in 1954 i think when it became mandatory to have one brake lamp , also indicators were not common .
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on January 17, 2012, 07:55:34 PM

on the issue of Bonds being likely to be involved in accidents due to poor braking we can't argue really . but to be fare in those days brake lights were not compulsory , this changed i think in 1954 i think when it became mandatory to have one brake lamp , also indicators were not common .
Purely by coincidence  I came across a 1954 copy of "The Service Station" magazine at a car boot sale at the weekend which has a short article about "Trico-Floberth Ltd's flashing signal programme in response to the new regulations about direction indicators which came into force on January 1st 1954." Although those regulations dictated what the indicators had to look like and how they had to operate if they were fitted, I was suprised to find it didn't make them compulsory. In fact when I looked into it a bit further http://www.ukmot.com/ (http://www.ukmot.com/) it seems the law still applies that if no front or rear position lamps are fitted to a vehicle, there is no legal requirement to fit any other lamp. But you have to ensure that any lamps that are fitted are permanently  disconnected, painted over or masked. Vehicles have had to be fitted with one stop lamp since 1 Jan 1936 (two since Jan 1971) by law but direction indicators are still entirely at the manufacturers discretion.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 17, 2012, 08:37:07 PM
funny it must depend where you look  :) my 1949 BOND A was never fitted with brake lights or indicators - and  indeed the only headlamp dipping is to turn out the offside headlamp  !

Quoting from my 1949 AA book " direction indicators and stop lights are not compulsory, but if fitted must comply with certain conditions, e.g. where electrically operated , direction indicators must be coloured amber , be of not less than 6 ins. in illuminated length and not wider than one and a half inches. The illuminated surface must be visible from both front and rear of the vehicle . "
pretty specific .
my 1954 Gordon has one brake light and i paraphrase - to comply with recent legislation
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Big Al on January 18, 2012, 10:45:27 AM
garages offering free breakdown service .


It is not the dealers offering this service via the AA protection racket now, but the manufacturers. Love the computers, exhaust filters that 'block' up, dual mass clutches (re-inventing the cush drive 'cos the engine is as rough as hell) leading to expensive repairs. Meanwhile the bereft AA has been sold to the highest bidder into a machine to rip off the stranded motorist for private investors profits. CAn I say I prefer a Robb's Garage at the end of the street and sensible car technology.
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: richard on January 18, 2012, 06:07:22 PM
waiting to be corrected was that a COMMER van behind the jag/bond ?
Title: Re: old Bond dealership
Post by: Big Al on January 19, 2012, 10:01:12 AM
waiting to be corrected was that a COMMER van behind the jag/bond ?

I hope so. What else could it be. Did the badge some as Dodge?