RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: milnes on June 03, 2012, 08:07:58 PM
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I've now got my AC Invacar on the road and love it, what a great little car ;D
Now i'm wondering about spares, how easy are they to come by?
I've e-mailed Stuart but not sure if he's around at the moment.
I'm looking for side window seals and a petrol cap.
I'm sure i will list more once i'm used to the car.
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Think Root is in France.
The fuel cap is pretty standard actually but not being into British stuff greatly I cannot tell you what stuff it fits as well. You will find them at bike jumbles. On strokers they sometimes have a mixing tube on them to treat the fuel to the right mix.
The door seal I think is available. The window seal is as Mini Mk1? If so probably remade, but without shopping around, at a silly price.
See what Root says when he is back.
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Delivered today. I seem to have acquired 2.5 tonnes of Invacar Model 70 spares including three rolling chassis complete with Engines (bodies cut-off in preparation for scrapping years ago)
I only phoned up for a drive pulley & belt!
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What a terrific haul, well done, that should keep a few going for a while!
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you will never exhaust that supply - nice one :)
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If you have any Villiers 9E spares, I need a couple of second hand parts... Carburettor "lid", clutch pushrods, clutch springs, and a couple more small parts...
Let me know, JP
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Sorry Jonathan, Absolutely nothing from models other than the Model 70.
I don't think there is much in common between the Model 70 and earlier cars.
If I do find something odd in the bottom of one of the boxes I will let you know.
Lots of new old stock - Drive belts, Salsbury pulleys, exhausts, etc.
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Sorry Jonathan, Absolutely nothing from models other than the Model 70.
I don't think there is much in common between the Model 70 and earlier cars.
If I do find something odd in the bottom of one of the boxes I will let you know.
Lots of new old stock - Drive belts, Salsbury pulleys, exhausts, etc.
Thanks!
JP
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Well done that man, Barry! :o Right then, I think I'd better galvanise myself into action & have a few chats with you ;) as the ICR has folk lining up for parts, including one chap only an hour before you posted, looking for the exhaust pipe sections which go between silencer & manifolds... This I presume is the Lanarkshire Hoard? I can tell you the exact identity's of the rolling chassis's if you nip out & have a scrape for the chassis number on the flat face of the front suspension top mounts & quote them to me.
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Really good to hear from you Stuart and glad that you are about.
This is indeed the Scottish stockpile.
It would be good to reunite the chassis numbers with the original registrations and perhaps even get V5c's for them (as trikes).
I would like to see them back on the road as proper Invacars one day, rather than cut-down trikes.
However, I need to recover some of my money, the parts and transport from Scotland was not cheap.
I will keep some spares for my other Model 70 (from Richard) but the rest will be for sale.
After unloading 2.5 tonnes of stuff with a manual pallet stacker yesterday, I am a bit cream crackered.
Next stage is to look in the boxes and see what is good and what is junk.
Will be good to keep in touch.
Barry
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Great stuff, interesting to see how little there is in the front end.
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Yes. You would think that the front could be much narrower, but, the Invacar has doors that slide straight forward and so the door runners have been attached to the extended (straight) chassis.
There is a lot of air at the front.
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It does confirm my long-held feeling that if they had adopted the Isetta/Heinkel rear engine/single wheel layout they would have had more usable space for occupier and shopping/luggage, as well as improved stability.
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Ah, but don't forget these things were but a forced development of the old "seat on wheels" open carriages of the early days, and also that as far as the Ministry were concerned, they were only ever appliances that just happended to develop to look like cars. After personal mobility for the user, luggage space & such-like were way down the list of considerations. The space in a Model 70 or other full-bodied conveyance is there primarily for a folding wheelchair, not the week's shopping....
Why do people always go on about stability with these things? All I can say is very few who raise the subject can actually ever have driven one any distance. I have, & you'd have to be doing something pretty damn silly to get out of shape with one as the centre of gravity is several inches below ground level (or so it seems) and being sat in the middle of the chassis, weight distribution is as bout as good as it gets.
Also, those who think a Model 70 is slow, think again. Compared to the old Villiers-engined stuff & even to a lot of vehicles these days, they were & still are veritable little hot rods....
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I know about the development and the need to please the government etc., and I am not criticising Invalid carriages alone, but all 3 wheelers with a single front wheel. In normal driving they are fine, but if you brake hard going into a corner, a dangerous situation in any car, you ARE likely to topple it. I remember in the 70s there were a whole lot of complaints from users who had turned turtle and eventually the Ministry did some slalom and braking tests which were televised. Although the tests were designed to how the ICs in a favourable light you could still clearly the flawed handling of a single front wheeler, in the exact circumstances where you MOST want stability and control. After these Ministry "whitewash tests" some users did make their own film showing the slalom test but with heavy braking, and over they went! The IC's rear engine layout is certainly better at reducing the topple effect than in Bonds and Reliants, but still it is less stable in real difficulties than two front wheels.
The liveliness of later ICs, especially the 400 cc Rotax (?) powered ones has never been in question!
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Have you ever driven an IC Marcus or a single front wheel car? Any vehicle, surely, being driven beyond the drivers capabilities will topple over. Why brake hard going into a corner? If you can't see around a corner you should have slowed down before reaching it. Oh, I forgot most people seem to think they are on a race track. Remember the Peel Trident that toppled over on a corner at the IOM Peel reunion?
A few years ago I was reminded by a local council member about a few chaps from Chaseley in Eastbourne, established for paraplegic war veterans, whose long-terms needs were not being met elsewhere. Being young men with mechanical minds and being issued with the latest Model 70 ICs with the 493cc Steyr-Puch engine, the temptation to tune up their motors was great. Then came the fun until it was stopped by the local police when they found out that little blue three-wheelers and their intrepid drivers were using the wide(ish) road outside of the Grand Hotel on the seafront as a drag-strip! Oh, I wish I had been there to witness the fun.
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interesting debate on these vehicles - i read with interest . on the spares front i just cannot imagine how thrilled i would be to be unpacking 2 1/2 pallets of Gordon, Bruetsch or Bond spares wowee :) even with all the duplications , and i am sure there would be a market elsewhere for exhausts , some RUM cars dont have a spares scheme or owners club !
by the way what the heck are the rest of crates in that warehouse full of ? oozing goodies by the look of it ;)
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The rest of the warehouse is full of Haflinger spares. A really great four wheel drive vehicle. Uses the same engine as the Model 70 but....................................Big carb, big manifold big bore, big valves and these goodies can help to get an Invacar over the 80mph mark. Not for me.
That is why the Invacar spares were there. The great guys at Heflinger Technik used all of the common parts and what's left are the 'left-overs'
http://www.haflingertechnik.com
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Really good to hear from you Stuart and glad that you are about.
This is indeed the Scottish stockpile.
It would be good to reunite the chassis numbers with the original registrations and perhaps even get V5c's for them (as trikes).
I would like to see them back on the road as proper Invacars one day, rather than cut-down trikes.
However, I need to recover some of my money, the parts and transport from Scotland was not cheap.
I will keep some spares for my other Model 70 (from Richard) but the rest will be for sale.
After unloading 2.5 tonnes of stuff with a manual pallet stacker yesterday, I am a bit cream crackered.
Next stage is to look in the boxes and see what is good and what is junk.
Will be good to keep in touch.
Barry
Oh good, temptation has been removed to buy this lot. I cannot imagine there will be any junk as it will have been picked over all ready. That was one of the reasons to have bought it and shoved in a shed up near Carlisle. Also keep the costs down as even thinking of moving something seems to cost a few quid these days! For junk, I think substitute, parts that need to be kept for 20 years till someone wants them. The hidden responsibility of buying up ex dealer stock. I have 50 years worth of unsold Goggo weirdness in just such a situation, ex M and P, Hans, Cambridge agent and even a few bits of Kings Lynn importer unsold stock. One day someone will want it.
Perhaps you are now to become the repository for currently unwanted IC spares since folk were reluctant to allow me to buy for, and to help, the ICR a few years back. Having played with my Type 70s and worked a few things out of my system I am no longer so keen to hold that responsibility. Other plans now replace the previous ones.
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i think you have the makings of a very fine Gordon replica - lucky you :)
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If they can't be reunited with original bodies, I'm sure they could be converted into something that looks much like a Gordon.
I was thinking that the full body of something like an Austin A35 (or whatever) could be grafted on but with a narrowing front - three wheel A35.
Much easier if most of the body build is already sorted, just customising of the front.
Are there any other fibreglass bodies out (from interesting 3 wheel cars) that have chassis and running gear that are beyond repair?
Any other suggestions?
Just realised that the Invacar can go as fast backwards as it can forward - so two wheels at the front is an option. What is rear wheel steering like at 70mph?
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It seems to me what is needed is someone with decent Invacar who is willing to have it striped of its fittings so that it can be used to make moulds from which new Invacar body panels can be made.
This is not a simple task as the body would probably have to be disassembled in order to be able to mock up the joints correctly, but it is still a lot less work than making a new body, plus of course one gets the moulds for any future Invacar spares.
No, I'm not suggesting putting the Invacar back into production. Though, now that you come to mention it.......
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...so that it can be used to make moulds from which new Invacar body panels can be made.
Where's Andy Carter when you need him?... ;) ;D
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It seems to me what is needed is someone with decent Invacar who is willing to have it striped of its fittings so that it can be used to make moulds from which new Invacar body panels can be made.
This is not a simple task as the body would probably have to be disassembled in order to be able to mock up the joints correctly, but it is still a lot less work than making a new body, plus of course one gets the moulds for any future Invacar spares.
No, I'm not suggesting putting the Invacar back into production. Though, now that you come to mention it.......
I could use my other good complete car as a mould and I know an expert Fibreglass mould maker who could make the bodies but the Invacar is not like a simple micro. The doors are quite complicated and the end value is still pretty low compared to a Trident or P50 for some reason!
It could have a soft top though which would look good.
Ideally it would be good to find three new bodies, especially for the tiller steering one which was made by Invacar Thundersely rather than by AC like the two others.
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Alternatively there maybe enough dead IC to re use the bodies. I have one I will be selling shortly.
I had looked at doing a four wheeler using a narrowed Mini subframe. At the same time it could go two seat, or possibly three seat like Gordon Murray. This without loosing much of its IC character.
I had thoughts of a change of body. Andy Carter can supply one that will jolly nearly fit straight on though he perhaps has not thought down that route. Sort of Goggo meets Stirling....... Suddenly IC are not quite such a joke as that combo will see most of the competition off and look good!
No doubt new Berkeley panels would fit as well.
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It might be good to get your old IC body out of your way. Could possibly pick it up free of charge AL?
Ho Ho Ho!
post a picture.
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Speaking of AC spares- I just spent my whole day disassembling my Petite's remotely mounted tri belt driven transmission.
I did so inspired by a hemorrhagic leaking of oil of Valdez/ BP proportions. I also could not adjust the shift linkage to allow me to catch both reverse and top gear (3rd) at any one setting. If I am able to catch 3rd gear at all, I have to keep an upward pressure on the column mounted sequential shifter to keep it from popping out of gear, and of course have to use my right foot for reverse. I guess that is why they have the suicide doors, as these make this action almost convenient.
There doesn't seem to be much play left in the shift linkage since I tightened up a connection or two, and set it up so the bell cranks are operating from closer to a 3 o'clock/ 9 o'clock position, as opposed to the 12 o'clock/ 6 o'clock orientations that gave minimal mechanical advantage, maximum slop, and easily over centered, giving an extra unwanted 6 inches of play. Hopefully at least Big Al is having little trouble envisioning this.
I found little to complain about in the condition of the gears and selector mechanisms, probably owing to its overall mileage only being about 15 k. But that leaves me in mystery as to why finding gears feels like bobbing for apples in between running grinding wheels. Any suggestions? The clutch disks were oil saturated, but clutch action seemed adequate, if not just a wee bit draggy when rolling backwards whist the clutch pedal was depressed.
Oh yeah- the spares. Upon finally stripping the gearbox, which was not without folly as all the gears and shafts fell into the oil drain pain in an unrecognizable heap that took me 2 panicky hours to decipher..I noticed that the already Frankinstonian welded brain case is severely cracked in an obviously critical, but unfortunaely very thin machined area where the output shaft bearing is supposed to be supported- hence the big bleed. Anyone have an extra case alongside their hen's teeth?
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i guess the raleigh safety seven gives the answer as to which bodyshell you fit on the invacar - sorted :)
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Speaking of AC spares- I just spent my whole day disassembling my Petite's remotely mounted tri belt driven transmission.
I did so inspired by a hemorrhagic leaking of oil of Valdez/ BP proportions. I also could not adjust the shift linkage to allow me to catch both reverse and top gear (3rd) at any one setting. If I am able to catch 3rd gear at all, I have to keep an upward pressure on the column mounted sequential shifter to keep it from popping out of gear, and of course have to use my right foot for reverse. I guess that is why they have the suicide doors, as these make this action almost convenient.
There doesn't seem to be much play left in the shift linkage since I tightened up a connection or two, and set it up so the bell cranks are operating from closer to a 3 o'clock/ 9 o'clock position, as opposed to the 12 o'clock/ 6 o'clock orientations that gave minimal mechanical advantage, maximum slop, and easily over centered, giving an extra unwanted 6 inches of play. Hopefully at least Big Al is having little trouble envisioning this.
I found little to complain about in the condition of the gears and selector mechanisms, probably owing to its overall mileage only being about 15 k. But that leaves me in mystery as to why finding gears feels like bobbing for apples in between running grinding wheels. Any suggestions? The clutch disks were oil saturated, but clutch action seemed adequate, if not just a wee bit draggy when rolling backwards whist the clutch pedal was depressed.
Oh yeah- the spares. Upon finally stripping the gearbox, which was not without folly as all the gears and shafts fell into the oil drain pain in an unrecognizable heap that took me 2 panicky hours to decipher..I noticed that the already Frankinstonian welded brain case is severely cracked in an obviously critical, but unfortunaely very thin machined area where the output shaft bearing is supposed to be supported- hence the big bleed. Anyone have an extra case alongside their hen's teeth?
Only just found this posting. My mind boggled I can offer no constructive view as I have had no experience of AC Petite. Ownership was restricted to leaving them where they were to an unknown fate as I had not the time to recover them from Groomfondle's yard.
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Car No1 from 1977. is now Mad-Maxing around the garden.
Very smooth and responsive and at 20,000 miles the engine sounds great.
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I have found that most of them are timed wrong so far. Once you get the old pensil down the bore and approximate timing within guidelines they are smooth. Then to find the sweet spot ones the tubes are cleaned out. A stripped car will be faster and more stable so great fun to be had.
The engineless shell is on eBay now should you actually have interest. I expect you have your hands full, though. I have suggested a buyer might approach you for parts if they are to go the original route without supplying contact info.
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I have found that most of them are timed wrong so far. Once you get the old pensil down the bore and approximate timing within guidelines they are smooth. Then to find the sweet spot ones the tubes are cleaned out. A stripped car will be faster and more stable so great fun to be had.
The engineless shell is on eBay now should you actually have interest. I expect you have your hands full, though. I have suggested a buyer might approach you for parts if they are to go the original route without supplying contact info.
Thanks Al. I have interest but obviously no money. If it doesn't go, I will make you an offer.........It would be nice to reunite a body and soul and have another good Invacar on the road.
If someone else buys it, my spares are available. Door rubbers are going fast so best be quick!
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Yes I heard about the door rubbers. Depending what happens in my life I might be able to store the real inert spares for the future but I cannot yet make that commitment.
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dont know door rubbers but they must be VERY odd if theres a problem getting them surely
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Hi Barry,
I'm after some spares if you have them and are interested in selling. The main thing is a dashboard as mine is broken.
Thanks
Matt
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Only too happy to help with spares.
Two cars were stacked on top of each other and not much thought was been given to preservation. I am pretty sure that only one dash may be good. I will have a look and take a photo.
How bad is yours?
Do you have a large dia speedo (hangs out of the bottom of the dash) or small one?
Will compile a list of spares but I need to talk to Stuart to see if there is a spares list tying up part numbers (STY xxx) with descriptions. I can work most things our - Hub-cap for instance! but some of the bags of new bushes & pins are a bit hard to identify.
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I am in the market for a large speedo if there is one. Perhaps a trip over with Root and an ID parade might be in order. Someone has a winning bid on the engineless car so he presumably will be after a load of stuff. It could be that your investment will return its cost reasonably quickly.
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don't know door rubbers but they must be VERY odd if theres a problem getting them surely
It's not so much an awkward section, just crumby design & fitting. Most other cars have the rubbers clipped round a flange or something but the Model 70 just has it glued practically flush with the bodywork. After 30-40 years of doors, feet, legs, wheelchairs & shopping etc being dragged over them & often ill-fitting doors, most rubbers are somewhat the worst for wear nowadays.
Moving on, I've just these past few moments dug up my Model 70 parts list from the depths of the filing system. It does indeed link up the STY numbers with parts descriptions, so that'll be through the photocopier & on its way to you Barry hopefully in the next couple of days but we've got another big rally looming up here from Thursday til Monday, so if you don'tl get it this week, it'll arrive early next week...
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I am in the market for a large speedo if there is one. Perhaps a trip over with Root and an ID parade might be in order. Someone has a winning bid on the engineless car so he presumably will be after a load of stuff. It could be that your investment will return its cost reasonably quickly.
It is a shame someone has put a bid in for your trashed Invacar Al. We could have done a swap for the speedo!
How much is an Invacar body worth? How much is a speedo worth - I suppose eBay is the only way to find out.
Great news from Stuart on the parts list. I will be able to catalogue the spares and start to sell a few to the remaining Model 70 enthusiasts.
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don't know door rubbers but they must be VERY odd if theres a problem getting them surely
It's not so much an awkward section, just crumby design & fitting. Most other cars have the rubbers clipped round a flange or something but the Model 70 just has it glued practically flush with the bodywork. After 30-40 years of doors, feet, legs, wheelchairs & shopping etc being dragged over them & often ill-fitting doors, most rubbers are somewhat the worst for wear nowadays.
Moving on, I've just these past few moments dug up my Model 70 parts list from the depths of the filing system. It does indeed link up the STY numbers with parts descriptions, so that'll be through the photocopier & on its way to you Barry hopefully in the next couple of days but we've got another big rally looming up here from Thursday til Monday, so if you don'tl get it this week, it'll arrive early next week...
Great news about the parts list Stuart.
I wonder what the best glue is to stick the rubber trim on? The door trim that I have is brand new and will really make my running car look a lot better.
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[ How much is a speedo worth - I suppose eBay is the only way to find out.
Hmm. An advert to buy big or little sized used Invalid Speedos during the Olympics might bring in some fashion conscious amputees and the odd pervert (not sure what a standard pervert is but odd ones are more dangerous, I think).
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[ How much is a speedo worth - I suppose eBay is the only way to find out.
Hmm. An advert to buy big or little sized used Invalid Speedos during the Olympics might bring in some fashion conscious amputees and the odd pervert (not sure what a standard pervert is but odd ones are more dangerous, I think).
You are on form today Al
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Do I get a medal, kew Muttley laughing noises.
A noise mimicked by an ill tuned Type 70. The next one in the garage now does not do this and runs pretty sweetly, again needing some use to clear out the muck accumulated in the pipes to run clean for fine tuning. Again the timing was some 4 mm off. I am beginning to think there is something strange going on here. Were they deliberately tuned to not perform to their fullest? The edited manual from Stuart provides two differing values of tune. Anyway this one is done and only needs a polish up before it goes to its new home. The last car is to come round to the workshop today and looks to be sold leaving me my one example to keep, which was to have been Stuarts originally and the best of the bunch for condition, though there is an issue with the starting assembly. Be interesting to see where this two are timed to.
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So what is your recommendation for the timing position AL. I will have a look at my four cars and see how they are set-up.
One of the scrap cars is definitely smooth and responsive.
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I have found that most of them are timed wrong so far. Once you get the old pensil down the bore and approximate timing within guidelines they are smooth. Then to find the sweet spot ones the tubes are cleaned out.
Yep, this one was timed to fire at top dead centre and had one HT cable joint installed with the incorrect length of insert in the cap. No wonder it run like a dump truck. After all issues it now runs really smoothly and I actually prefer the hand throttle installed on this one over the twist grip normally fitted. It also goes considerably faster than the other four I have got running. Interesting, as it has a different oil filter and filler arrangement and the starter has to work harder to turn it over, so it might be a 'bigger' engine as rumoured to be found occasionally.
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Grab a bargain!
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/6/ac%20invacar/
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So what is your recommendation for the timing position AL. I will have a look at my four cars and see how they are set-up.
One of the scrap cars is definitely smooth and responsive.
I did not answer the question, re reading the thread.
I had to pass on my manual when I sold the car now in use in Lincolnshire and am waiting for the internetless Stuart to get more copies made up. I made a tool up to do the timing which I just use.
I think it was between 4mm to 6mm but I will have to check. The pulley seems to only carry a mark for TDC. However have both plugs out and check as there are differing pulleys and the might not all be marked the same.
I probably do not need to tell you to turn the engine beyond the measuring to take up the backlash as it rotates forward to find the firing point. I simply use the spark to initially set the thing up. Off course the dizzy rotates (if not botched!) to alter the timing by undoing a clamp.
Once measured up properly and the pully marked then active timing can be done to find the best point. Then the carb adjusted after some use for best performance After several re-times and resets it should be on the spot. The problem is that with the tuning being out the tick over gets erratic and often to fast to keep the engine running. Then the transfer gearbox cannot be selected without turning the engine off first. See the scribble on the Scottish Type 70 for sale by classified and eBay where the car exhibits this exact problem.
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Thanks for that Al.
I'm just negotiating on your old Model 70 body & chassis (no engine) looks like the chap that bought it has given up on the idea of fitting a motorcycle engine.
Up to £12.50 on eBay but should be worth at least twice that..............!
Barry