RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on January 10, 2013, 06:44:30 PM
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Ok. Looking inside the speedo drive on my 9e ithere is a straight slot cut in the part that rotates, I have never seen a cable end this shape, is there a small component missing do you think, that connects a square cable end to this slot? Help please!
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will check my Gordon speedo drive when i can - next monday . on the Gordon i have a conventional square cable - but there is an intermediate piece converting it to a slot , i believe it was also used on Royal Enfield rev counters . i suspect you need this " adaptor" to the inner cable only . i could post it to you to try out . goodness knows where i got the info :-\
fairly sure this will be the answer - try a Royal Enfield dealer
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Yes Bob, there should be a driving fork that slides into the end of the cable and locates into the slot in the speedo drive.
This part is easily lost when you remove the cable and it falls out. I last bought one for a Scootacar from Speedy Cables.
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Cheers guys, the forum is improving, we are getting tech'y questions AND answers now!
I'm guessing this part is steel or bronze, with a pattern I could churn one out. I will make enquires but if I can buy one I will take you up on your offer Richard.
Thanks Grant, I will try Speedy cables, so long as I dont have to speak to that miserable old goat there [He is probably the owner!] The younger chap is far more amicable!
Speedo question, I have a Smiths speedo from an IC that looks like the one I need but disconnected the needle doesnt settle at zero, its at 10mph, any ideas whats wrong with it? When I turn it with a screw driver in the back it appears to respond but its rather stiff, maybe the grease inside has congealed. Any ideas? Or where can I get a Scootacar one from?
Finaly , if I put oil in the gear box with no speedo cable fitted, will it leak out the drive hole?
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Oil should not leak out the gearbox from the speedodrive as there should be an O ring within to prevent this happening.
Sounds like the speedo needs a good clean and some lubrication due to lack of use. The correct Smiths speedo you require is
the early type as fitted to many ICs and not the later one fitted to the Scootacar and Frisky etc with the broader needle and flat edge chrome bezel, very sad that I know this :P
Ray Dilks is doing exactly the same with his Frisky speedo that's not had use for many years and following a good clean is now functioning as it should.
In you line of work Bob, you should have no problem opening up the speedo head and giving it a good clean
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Thanks Grant, sad but usefull!
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Grant, I have freed up the speedo and it appears to work well now with an electric drill in the back of it. I'm not turning back the mileometer officer, honest!! ;D
Just to clarify what you said about the early and later types, I have the one with the bezel that has a pointed profile not a flat one, is that the earier type? Cheers, Bob
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it actually doesn't help at all but as bob likes it when we get all techy i've added some diagrams from the LARGE originals i bought recently 24" x 36" - have several covering 9E and 2T / 3T
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cant post them" the uploader folder is full contact an administrator" this happened 2 days ago when i tried to post pics . is it the forum or me ?
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funnily enough just found this old bit of RUM on google
http://www.rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=1716.0;wap2
would the part be what villiers services call a spade - mine looks spade like - ring them up bearing in mind the fearsome price i paid for a cable recently at speedycables
http://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21_63_65
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I tried loading up some pics and got the same thing so its the site. Would you care to divulge what the cable cost you Richard? It may decide me as to wheather to bother with a working speedo or not. This project is on a strict budget.
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it was on the forum :
http://www.rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=2977.0
ok so maybe not a fortune but if villiers can do them at £15 + £2 for the spade i would try them first , or just the spade from speedy ? suspect villiers from stock so returnable if incorrect . speedy would be made to order too.
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this is what i was trying to post bits of my large wallcharts
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Hmmm. No sign of an O ring in there Grant. Are you sure it doesnt go in with the cable?
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Just to clarify what you said about the early and later types, I have the one with the bezel that has a pointed profile not a flat one, is that the earlier type? Cheers, Bob
Yes, sounds like you have the earlier type with the profiled bezel and thinner more elegant needle which dates from pre 1958.
In the barrel of the speedo drive there should be a flat profiled O ring which prevents oil leakage from the gearbox. The speedo drive in a 9E is at the lowest point so potentially you could loose all your oil if it leaked. There is definitely not a seal in the cable, it locates on the very fine brass threads of the speedodrive.
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Yes, its because the speedo drive is at the bottom that is causing me concern, I want to get this right before the engine is installed. You say "it locates on the very fine brass threads of the speedodrive." Could you be more specific please, what locates on the fine threads {1/2" X 26tpi}, the cable or the seal? Do you have to dismantle the drive mechanism to access the seal ring? Or can you get to it from outside ,? Is it behind the part with the slot in it that drives the cable? I didnt really want to take the mechanism off now that its all sealed up with a new gasket but I will if I have to.
Is this the early one? see pic.
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The speedo cable fixes on to the fine brass threads of the drive unit. The seal is behind the slot where the drive fork locatates. Put some oil into the gearbox now before you install it and check but it will be oil tight. Your are worrying about nothing, honest.
The speedo in the picture is the early type but is not the specifc one I was thinking of for your car. It should have a black face, 80mph (yeh really !) and the needle rotates in a clockwise direction.
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Hi
If its any use, the Frisky 9E uses a Clockwise speedo Smiths 2.5 inch dial Clockwise sweep 10 to 80 MPH
Dial info is SN3103/71 1530
The 3T also uses the identical speedo. Ray has tried one of my anti clockwise speedo and confirms it didn't work on his 3T FriskySport
Hope this helps (I realise I'm playing with the big boys here!!)
John
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What, you mean if I use this speedo my car will only do 60mph instead of 80? :D
I may be waisting my time with this speedo then as it comes from a AC acedies with an 11e that has an add on cog driven speedo drive which I guess reverses the rotation. Now I'm thinking if I link this one up it will be turning the wrong way. Hmm, will try it out tomorrow.
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Oh dear! My fears are realised. My speedo works the opposite way around to that of my drive. Grant is right, I now need one of those black dialed 80mph speedo's. One with a clockwise needle rotation. Does anyone have one for sale? At the same time does anyone need a speedo from an AC Acedes IC? I also have the drive mechanism to match.
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may fit an early bond need to know the number thats behind the needle on your photo
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Do they run anticlockwise then?
Number is SN 3177/00 1216
I'm willing to swap with something suitable.
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some do some don't with the early bonds. the 1216 is rpm so wheel size is the issue i guess . don't know what all the other numbers can signify - but some sad old codger will :D stuart ? grant ? are you there ? ;D
will get back to you bob
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but some sad old codger will :D stuart ? grant ? are you there ? ;D
Yes, still here. Not 100% sure on this one. The number refers to Smiths specification and the ratio. However, since the speedometer is driven from the gearbox and not the road wheel then should the wheel diameter be an factor ?. It is on a Bond which drives the speedo from either of the back wheels so there has to be a difference between those with 8" and 10" wheels. However on a Frisky, Scootacar, Tourette and IC all fitted with a Villiers 9E with gearbox speedo drive then will they have all the same speedometer ? despite having either 8 or 10" wheels.
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These may be worth a look
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150975986340?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648
New copy Speedo
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181060210570?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
John
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this all emphasises the difficulties with RUM cars, rather than isetta, messerschmitt , treinkel etc , nothing seems set in stone . johns leads look likely though one would break your budget .
see attached a letter where nick mander was explaining same to me re Bond A speedo driven by a mamod type wire running on the front hub !
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but some sad old codger will :D stuart ? grant ? are you there ? ;D
Yes, still here. Not 100% sure on this one. The number refers to Smiths specification and the ratio. However, since the speedometer is driven from the gearbox and not the road wheel then should the wheel diameter be an factor ?. It is on a Bond which drives the speedo from either of the back wheels so there has to be a difference between those with 8" and 10" wheels. However on a Frisky, Scootacar, Tourette and IC all fitted with a Villiers 9E with gearbox speedo drive then will they have all the same speedometer ? despite having either 8 or 10" wheels.
I guess not. The IC has the 11e with gearbox that doesnt have the speedo drive sunk into the underside of its caseing. It runs off of a seperate transmission box, so what with this and the bigger wheels I think the waters are too mudded to work out the ratio's unless someone has knowledge of what the numbers mean.
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These may be worth a look
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150975986340?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648
New copy Speedo
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181060210570?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
John
Thanks John. I did spot these but at this stage I just dont know if a ratio of 2:1 is what I require. More research I think.
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I'm told that the last four digit number on the dial indicates the revolutions per mile. Can a scootacar owner out there please tell me what the last four digit numbers is on there speedo please, then I will know what I'm looking out for. CHeers.
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are they all 10" wheels ?including bobs . i did say rpm which i meant as that .
tha Bond A has a much more realistic instrument ;D interestingly having 2000 rather than the apparently correct 1800 ( 8" wheels ) as the figure but again it's just the one that looks the part that i found - a moped or the like probably, it has that little mounting bracket on the side , but that will go .
obviously wheel size must be important if 2 vehicles both ran on the same gearbox drive but one car had wheels twice the diameter a totally different speed would be recorded in each car . WHEELSIZE is important - or sprocket hmmmm