RUMCars Forum
General Category => Microcar News => Topic started by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on August 03, 2014, 01:30:43 AM
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This has to be the programme that they were working on at last years National rally, looks like it includes a KV Mini as well.
http://youtu.be/RVV_1fMRJiE (http://youtu.be/RVV_1fMRJiE)
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More information
Malcolm Thomas has sent me the following extract of an email from the BBC: -
I am writing to notify you that the long awaited BBC series, ‘James May’s Cars of the People’, will be transmitted on BBC2 and BBC2 HD (in the UK) on the following dates:
Episode 1: Sunday 10th August 2014. 9pm
Episode 2: Sunday 17th August 2014. 9pm
Episode 3: Sunday 24th August 2014. 9pm
The trail for the series can be viewed here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0240c55
Unfortunately, at present, we have not been informed of any international transmission dates for the series. ........................
Typical that it will be shown when most people are on holiday or traveling home from holiday. At least it will be better than most of the rubbish that is on the TV at the moment.
Chris Thomas
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It should have my Microcar DX in it (ex Jean do) if it made the final cut. ;D
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Listening to James May on the radio this morning it sounds like the Microcar element will all be in the second program with the exception of the Trabant which will be in the first program.
Typical of BBC programing as I will be traveling when the second program will be on. Let us hope that it will be on BBC I player or they repeat it on DAVE
Chris Thomas
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Hmmm. Just watched episode one. Its as I feared, if he slags off the VW Beetle, the Tradant and the Wartburg, what's he going to say next week about our beloved microcars? All those who pandered to him at the National last year to get there cars on the telly may regret it.
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I quite enjoyed the programme. Yes he was less than complimentary about most of the cars, the beetle was more about the conception which nobody can really argue with.
As for our cars, well again he can say how terrible they drive, slow, poor handling and impractical, can we argue against that? I think not, but that's what i love about our little cars!
Bring on next weeks programme.
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I enjoyed the historical social references, indeed , the program went a bit too far off track for me in places.
I never like to see a car destroyed for no reason and driven over pot-holes just for the sake of it.
It all went on a bit too long for me on one subject. They could have fitted a few more different cars in - Tatra, Moskavich etc. (and what about a highly tuned Wartburg?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kQNgZiPvAk
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Was a Wartburg the peoples car? I thought it was for middle management. The workers got a Trabbi if they were lucky. The upmarket Wartburg was chosen as the best option to export into the West for currency. Here it might have been considered a peoples car, but all that proves is that the quality of products depends on the market forces and competition in a specific market.
Looking back on many supercars it is easy to now see how poor they were, not just as cars, but as pieces of engineering. The best of the Microcars can hold up their heads and kick bottom, if the playing field is level, as they were, from concept to sales, well made vehicles for the market they were intended for. The number of survivors and the ability to still use them in their niche and beyond proves the point. To understand the answer, though, you first have to understand the question! Few do.
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Some good points made. I watched about half of it, then had a phone call during most of the rest but was looking at it.
May gave a lot of praise to the design concept of VW, but to my utter amazement he made absolutely no mention at all about the Tatra designed by Hans Ledwinka which preceded the KdF Wagen.
The full truth is that Hitler and one of his henchmen (Speer perhaps) plus Ferdinand Porsche had become aware of the Tatra and asked Hans Ledwinka to show it to them. It had a beetle shape, platform chassis, air cooled boxer engine at the rear and was exactly the sort of thing that they wanted the KdF Wagen to be.
And so they copied it, thinking that as Germans they were superior to Czechoslovakians and could plagiarise the Tatra at will.
About 30 years after WW2 ended, VW FINALLY agreed a substantial out-of-court settlement to Ledwinka and Tatra, but Ledwinka died very soon later.
James May is a bright and well-informed man and apparently a pretty agreeable person too (despite a bias to cars rather more sophisticated than those we love!), so I was particularly disappointed that he failed to mention this shameful event, and yet again added to the unfairly-earned reputation and legend of Porsche and VW.
Incidentally, Hitler also decided that encyclopedias were wrong about who invented the motor car. Until then Siegfried Markus had always been credited as the first to make 4 wheeled, petrol powered cars, but Markus was far too Foreign and far too Jewish for Hitler's taste, so he ordered all references to Markus to be expunged from history and replaced with the much more German Mercedes Benz. Many other people and countries around the world have also accepted this "fact"; once created, propaganda and lies never die!
Actually, to me "Car" is short for Carriage and a car or carriage can have 3 or more wheels and be powered by any type of motor, therefore Cugnot's "Fardier" was the first car, and Trevithic's Puffing Devil was the first to drive on roads. Many steam, electric and even petrol cars preceded MB so their claims to have "Invented" the car are dishonest and preposterous. They were the first to put cars into production.
I love Germany and Germans (and their cars, ukuleles, drums, cymbals and percussion!) so I do not want to offend, but I just like to see the record put straight!
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Well said Marcus.
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I did just about manage to watch it till the end but I thought it was awful. I haven't seen a lot of James May's previous output and I know it's only entertainment, but I did expect a programme slightly more informed and sophisticated than the usual sort of disparaging Top Gear diatribe. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the microcars, but might be turning the sound down. Thanks goodness it's only three episodes!
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I have only watched one or two half episodes of top gear ever - can't stand any of them . I didn't catch the programme , I forgot , but please remind me when the micro ones on - when it's on . I think possibly I will watch it with no volume as well
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I watch Top Gear and get annoyed, but find James May on his own to be excellent.
Given a stark choice, I'd listen, with the pictures off! I've already seen the cars; I haven't yet heard James's sentence construction, and wondrous derision. He's very adept at presenting niche facts for a general public - which surely is the game here. ( A sort of spoken Bill Bryson - I'll read anything of his, just to enjoy the structure of his sentences. )
We can hardly expect an encyclopædic rundown of technical issues - the programme is about the societal impact of cars, not their mechanism. (And, in a programme about people cars, he'll surely steer clear of Tatra, famed as a manufacturer of prewar luxury cars?)
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Why wouldn't he mention Tatra in context to it being an integral part of the VW beetle story?
I will be listening with the sound and picture up, I agree, he does have a good turn of phrase and wit but then tends to revert into idiot mode and starts dropping cars from helicopters!
Some microcar people are always trying to "raise the profile" of our hobby but forget there are often consequences. Remember all those Reliant owners standing there feeling privileged to be invited to the filming of a programme about there cars only to find there car being portrayed in a grossly dishonest way. OK, it gave the petrol heads a laugh but it wasn't so funny the morning after the showing when owners across the realm awoke to find there cars had been tipped over by mindless TG watching yobs.
I say lets keep a low profile and just enjoy our hobby.
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I agree with Bob up to a point. The issue is that the enthusiast needs to control the information as much as possible. That means creating the filming opportunity and inserting the right cars and coherent spokesman to force the director onto our path, not his preconceived idea. This was partly shown by Grant, the Peels being loaded onto a truck and sent along the IOM preserved railway line. That opportunity would not have been there if it had not created publicity for those involved. The cameras duly arrived and Grant made a good spokesman. That some other folk made some unwelcome remarks shows the need to control the camera while it is present and brief those attending to mind what they say.
The condensed part of that IOM item shows that by use of the media in a controlled environment we can put our agenda ahead of theirs and use their presence to get we we want, rather than the other way round. This is how to access premium venues otherwise out of reach to a normal event. THe bonus is it puts our cars in the best light and with correct information from people who know what they are talking about instead of shouting heads with a script.
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Why wouldn't he mention Tatra in context to it being an integral part of the VW beetle story?
I suppose because he's not aiming to tell "the VW story" - he's concerning himself with the concept of a people's car, and the effect it had on the people. He branched out into the bits about Hitler and Kraft durch Freude because those make it more interesting/funny/scary to the general public, in a way that technical and design tie-ups might not. You and I might find the technical background fascinating - but then we have microcars, and are by that definition not the general public!
I quite agree, though, about destroying cars - any car - for the sake of it: a lapse back into Top Gear mode. Surely the "worse" a car was, the more we want to maintain the history?
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The general public love a good scandal, I think the Tatra bit would have gone down well on that basis alone without touching on technical issues.. Anyway, he didn't so that's that.
Although I agree with Al I cant really see how we can control what the program makers say.
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Nothing to do with microcars, but if you want to see a decent documentary that covers an engineering topic and shows how it should be done, don't miss the recent "Mechanical Marvels: Clockwork Dreams" programme about automata presented by Professor Simon Schaffer.
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Although I agree with Al I cant really see how we can control what the program makers say.
Two word answer as an example. Bubblecar jousting.
The background to that was an idle comment I made that it was easy to get on television if you wanted. It just needed the brains to do it. I was bet I could not do so. So I invented Bubblecar jousting, as the BUMS were happy to participate. We then sold this into the TV media as a traditional past time, total fabrication of course. It resulted in three filming sessions and a number of appearances on television. Several within the 6 month period stipulated, but I only got paid out once the bet, reluctantly I might add.
From the directors point of view this was tailor made and highly televisual. What need to add silly comments? Therefore the entire thing was filmed as we wanted it, save that for Pulling Power the Messerschmitt had to loose as the MOC pissed the director off (They were filming them on the same day). I was a far better jouster than Mike so my helmet was seeded with taped on drawing pins! I was happy for the Trojan to win, though, as I agreed with the Director. We even supplied the camera car, Mahari!
Transpose the situation to a more serious approach, dig out the odd and interesting facts and features, apply intelligence and skill, and appoint a personality as the Microcar production representative with the power to direct. The Director can either follow the prescribed and agreed agenda or he can piss off. Reason is simple as without control the TV camera takes over and any event becomes unmanageable. I have seen it happen, anyone at Malvern has seen it happen. This is totally achievable with the right people. Sadly it calls for the sort of long term planning and joined up thinking that seems rather lacking in the microcar world currently and I am not volunteering. Nor am I greatly interested in being in front of the camera.
That said I have got an idea that could involve creating a film to be sold. Something for when I have less work on and a reliable Microcar. If it happens it would probably involve some invited guests who know there stuff and can speak well, like Grant. Who knows what that could lead too. As things are there is a yawning gap in the market.
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So ... A TV programme based on silly misuse of cars, with the focus on the potential for disaster and injury, the situation made up, and what happens actually a lie?
Bright idea, Al. You could call it ... ooh ... Top Gear? ;D
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Why do people insist on deliberately misunderstanding information put before them? You cannot educate pork.
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Speak of the devil.
This beauty just drove across my path on the streets of Monterey today.
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In response to Marcus's post. the name "Mercedes Benz" first appeared on a car in 1926. The early cars from the late 1800's were "Benz". The first Mecedes was made made in 1901 ( I think ). A chap called Emil Jellinec ordered a batch of racing cars built to his own design from the Daimler Motorworks. He specified all the technical details. He had them named after his daughter Mecedes. Thank god they weren't called Jellinecs !
Nick.
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Well here is what James May really thinks of our cars
"“If you’re a regular viewer of Top Gear, you might be a bit disappointed that this programme is full of stupid, small cars,” admits James May. “But I have to say, I’m enjoying myself immensely.”
And so he is, piloting a range of more or less daft microcars like the Peel Trident and the Messerschmitt Tiger – cars created essentially to let people without a licence drive a (sort of) car – and look, as May says, like berks.
He spends a bit too long on this design cul-de-sac, but things get more interesting when he moves on to the classically French 2CV and Renault 4. Which sold more, do you think? And for that matter, what would be the biggest selling vehicle of all time? Answer: a Honda moped.
They are all stupid and people that drive them are berks!
Still glad you lent your car to make this programme????
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Let's see then but I have reservations - recording it for later Richard the Third programme holds more attractions for me right now
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Well it wasn't as insulting as it could have been. Peels and sans permis cars are awful so they deserved it. 2cv and Renault four part was reasonably informative but he then wasted 15 mins on blowing them up! Moron!
Another 15 mins about the Honda 50 scooterette which isn't a car of the people!
Still I was softened to the prog as there was a good shot of me and Alan Budd driving Thumper on the national road run. He was at least quite complimentary about Isetta's.
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I liked the historical 2Cv stuff, including the 5 second shot of a prototype being lifted out of a loft. Apart from that it was usual Top Gear' fare! Nice shots of the Japenese lineup especially the Mazda, though would have been nice to include the Flying Feather or Fuji Cabin when reminiscing over Japans past attempts. Needless to say I hated the stupid electric Peel bit of PR into the back of a Transit.
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Agree with Rusty Chrome about the Mechanical Marvels show, absolutely superb, and no flippant/trendy insults. I was away and missed part 2, sounds like I did not miss much.
How much is down to May and how much is down to producer I do not know, but BBC hows some fascinating programmes about all manner of things from ocean liners, trains and trams to Egyptian remains, weather and fossils, all covered with respect and interest. However, as soon as CARS are the subject matter all interest and objectivity has to make way for cynicism and contempt.
If they cannot think of anything positive to say about the programme's subject matter, I wish they would just not make the programe!
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The motoring programme makers appear to have nurtured an audience of petrol heads that are more interested in blowing things up or dropping from helicopters than they are in learning some facts. Now, that's what they expect to see. Very sad!
Its still worth seeing on iplayer though Marcus for the interesting bits.
The biggest irony is that at the National I was totally against them having free range of the site and the cars to make the programme, guessing it was going to be another Top Gear type shame, and out of all the camera hungry crawlers there trying to get into the programme via offering there cars etc who's is the only recognizable face to appear in the whole sequence? Yours truly! ::) ;D
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^ Ironic!
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hi friends, reading the post , i can see that the tv programm has been showed .
as BBC tv a replay possibility ??
we spend a lot of days to prepare cars , rent truck and wait for them to film microcars .... we would be pleased to look at the final result ..
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It's available on BBC iPlayer. Go to bbc.co.uk and search 'James May's cars of the people'.
It works for me - I hope it works in other countries, too!
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The motoring programme makers appear to have nurtured an audience of petrol heads that are more interested in blowing things up or dropping from helicopters than they are in learning some facts. Now, that's what they expect to see. Very sad!
Its still worth seeing on iplayer though Marcus for the interesting bits.
The biggest irony is that at the National I was totally against them having free range of the site and the cars to make the programme, guessing it was going to be another Top Gear type shame, and out of all the camera hungry crawlers there trying to get into the programme via offering there cars etc who's is the only recognizable face to appear in the whole sequence? Yours truly! ::) ;D
An interesting observation. In such awe of the camera were some that the allowed May to talk rubbish to camera right in front of them without correcting him. ''Eer, 'scuse me that is incorrect, you are confusing the three wheeled Isetts with the Messerschmitt, which is normally a three wheeler not a four wheeler'', for instance.
So you now have a program on a topic you know well. Yet there is a consensus saying the other programed are better researched..... Some might be but I fear that given a proof you are making a terrible assumption. Television, in its rush to entertain and gain an audience has forgotten its Reithien moral to educate. I could offer a list but I will refrain. Yet often TV is at is best and most whimsical when it does entertain with education. Like The Great Egg Race, Adam Hart-Whatsit and so on. Even great comedy educates, smut becomes boring pretty quickly, so other topics are needed. However somewhere this horrible notion that being bright, or inventing things, is socially repugnant, where as ignorance is good. I can only put this down to a smoke screen laid down upon an appalling education system which is failing many potentially useful people rather spectacularly. Top Gear is at the fore front of this laddish rubbish setting itself up as arbiter of a range of engineering and design principles it does not even attempt to understand. One minute the BMW Quarkbottom is the best car - in the world. Next Jaguar make the Codpiece Coupe and the poor Beemer is ridiculed as total rubbish. If I did not know better I would suspect bunging.
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Simple answer is- don't watch it.
I quite like 'Wheelerdealers' and also 'For the love of cars'. They tend to make things look a little too easy and straightforward when rebuilding the cars, but a least you get to learn a little something about the marque and the presenters egos don't outshine the subject matter.
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I don't, not even got a telly these days, but as a active classic car owner and general car driver I have to deal with the result of those that do!
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Simple answer is- don't watch it.
I quite like 'Wheelerdealers' and also 'For the love of cars'. They tend to make things look a little too easy and straightforward when rebuilding the cars, but a least you get to learn a little something about the marque and the presenters egos don't outshine the subject matter.
I have also been watching the Wheeler dealer programme since we recently got the Quest channel.
I find Mike Brewer a bit irritating but at least you see close up some proper restoring and Edd China does appear to be a good mechanic.
The first one I saw was recommended to me by a pal and I saw it on line, it was the Isetta episode and although they couldn't resist chrome plating the headlight shells Mr China did highlight the common things that need doing when restoring Isetta's such as the front wheel arch bottom edges, gear linkage rubbers amongst other things. I concluded that if he has got that right then chances are he may be talking sense about the other cars that I know nothing about.
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I concluded that if he has got that right then chances are he may be talking sense about the other cars that I know nothing about.
I conclude that he has excellent contacts with experts in all marques (or pays them to advise him) who actually provide all the specialist knowledge.
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hhaaa just looked at the serie on ytube ...
second part with the KV we brought ... a quick view of " la ptite anne" and that's all !
one week to prepare both microcars, rent truck, trailor ..... one day spent, on karting track , half an hour in front of camera answering in english ! ( glups! ) ... for nothing .... that(s tv ?? no??...
versus a quarter to gun the poor 2cv and 4L .... don't really understand ..
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Well, Mr President, we did try and warn you. When you offer to cooperate with the British motoring TV industry its like volunteering to be on the wrong side of a firing squad!
The fact that you don't understand it is a good sign, it means you are still sane.
Next time you are asked to help you will know what to say. ;)
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Having done a fair bit of work for TV, including making props and reconstructions, I know that TV Land follows its own rules and is VERY status orientated. Your status depends on many factors, and the higher the status the more say you have.
People who actually know about the subject, or how to make a machine tend to get on and do their thing. They are Low Status.
Celebrities and people who know very little but have a super-abundance of self-esteem are High Status. TV Land orbits around them.
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Or you become incredibly awkward but unique, forcing TV to orbit you. A hard act, but it can be done. After all that is what many celebs do.
Maybe the book will have more and better info. What book I hear you cry? Got to have a booky booky to make more money.
Here just hold this ladder while I climb up to heaven.