RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on October 21, 2014, 10:59:45 PM
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/international-automotive-scene/86509-micro-cars-pictorial-small-cars.html
How many errors can you spot?
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A few, but it does manage the rare trick of spelling Lawrie Bond correctly!
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It is interesting to note that at least three of the images used were taken at School House Farm during the 25 anniversary meeting in summer 2009.
Chris Thomas
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I will be taking legal action ;D ( I would have said Sue, soo , Sieu or whatever but can't recall the spelling ) lol ;D
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Richard, Yes, it wasn't very complimentary re Gordon was it! Is it true about them being built to give away in the pools, or is that bunkum?
Chris, yes I thought that was Jeans place in the background of many of the pics.
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Bunkum Bob :) and there was I thinking you would say that was the only factually correct part , actually the item is not far off really , so perhaps I shan't Sioux
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What about the first part " Nastiest cars ever created" surely that cant be true? ;)
Re what it says about the Inter, they don't even know the name of the make! Then about it being the only one blar blar, I have never said any of that!
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Improved technology bought does not mean correct input from the guy pushing the buttons. Same as wealth does not improve taste. Something should be done.
Worst car made. Means pampers and a strong nerve to actually test the candidates. Given the standard of this offering I think the writer perhaps has little vision of the true horrors out there. The Gordon has a saving grace. Its performance is unlikely to result in serious injury or death. Built in safety is all the rage these days. So it fails to be the worst car made, by being a candidate.
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Isetta's manufacturer not good at making it profitably?
Doing so is often quoted as saving BMW financially.
Mopettas made by Opel off shoot?
T60's with 4 wheels, and only 4 h.p. That would be a good trick as the 60 refers to its claimed speed capability in m.p.h.
Performance of the AZ-1 less impressive than a Beat? I guess they threw in the intercooled turbocharger just for looks, on this most race capable of all micros.
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I understood the Isetta did well for BMW, but perhaps it's larger sibling the 600 not so good. Seriously outclassed by other small cars that were prolific by then, and must have looked expensive to the British buyer, who could have purchased a Mini for much less.
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With you on BMW and Berkeley but Opels ok isn't it ? Isetta's unique front opening door ? And by the way where is Heinkel/Trojan , often regarded as the best looking of the lot ( oooh ! )
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I thought Opels were Opless, but I am dyslexic. Pity they continued to supply GM trucks to the other side in the second running of the World War franchise. Bounders as bad as one H. Ford and Standard Oil (Esso these days) - puts a new meaning 'We'll put a Tiger in your tank'! Anyway a diversion to annoy most folks so my job here is done.
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Isetta's unique front opening door ?
I'm stuck to think of any others that have the steering wheel attached. Suggestions?
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Isetta's manufacturer not good at making it profitably?
Doing so is often quoted as saving BMW financially.
I recall reading somewhere that it was not the actual SALES of Isettas that "saved" BMW, but the showing that they could adapt to market demands relatively quickly to stay afloat convinced banks to continue to invest in them despite the low demand for their usual line of vehicles.
That being said, it is easier to simply say "the Isetta saved BMW" without getting into the specifics.
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Take your point Dave but that would be more " unique steering wheel arrangement " wouldn't it ? Anyhow the whole article is a mix of oddments trawled sometimes incorrectly from other sources - par for the course recently
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Anyhow the whole article is a mix of oddments trawled sometimes incorrectly from other sources - par for the course recently
plus it is all written in Canadian, I'm sure much was lost in the translation.
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that would be more " unique steering wheel arrangement " wouldn't it?
I just meant that the original article referred to the 'unique' door having the steering wheel mounted on it.
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T60's with 4 wheels, and only 4 h.p. That would be a good trick as the 60 refers to its claimed speed capability in m.p.h.
I'm playing devil's advocate here (can you tell? ;) ) but I just worked it out for the 328cc version, and got 4.171 hp, which rounds truthfully to "four". (As with much writing, it's often unclear whether the author means hp or bhp.)
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Dave- please elaborate on your data set and figuring principles that allowed you to work up your 4 h.p. figure.
Even the pessimistic author gives my light, but only industrial type Villiers engined "abominable" Petite credit for twice the h.p. (or are we talking b.h.p.- explanation of significance of difference also appreciated), yet goes on to quote a claimed top speed of only 48 m.p.h.
I know that the Petite is only equipped with a three speed transmission, but taking about as many seconds to attain its top speed as miles that it would travel, if it could maintain that lucky feat for an hour, would effectively argue against the gearing being its speed limiting factor.
The Petite is similarly narrow, but presents a little more height in its frontal approach to the wind. However the reduced turbulence inflicted upon the airflow by a hard top design would tend to act to offset that theoretical advantage.
Not to mention that Wilkepedia quotes the T 60's output at 9 h.p., which to me sounds like a conservative figure in comparison to other two strokes of its day being credited with more than that, and being less than 2/3 its displacement.
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Isetta's manufacturer not good at making it profitably?
Doing so is often quoted as saving BMW financially.
I recall reading somewhere that it was not the actual SALES of Isettas that "saved" BMW, but the showing that they could adapt to market demands relatively quickly to stay afloat convinced banks to continue to invest in them despite the low demand for their usual line of vehicles.
That being said, it is easier to simply say "the Isetta saved BMW" without getting into the specifics.
Absolutely Steve and it's my favourite rib to owners of big horrid BMW's when they ask me what make Thumper is , usually when I'm filling up on the petrol station forecourt. Having said that I get the feeling that few of them believe me!
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Isetta's unique front opening door ?
I'm stuck to think of any others that have the steering wheel attached. Suggestions?
Trident, not quite in the same way. The Jawa car, I think might. Bound to be some weirdo thing from somewhere I never heard of too. They say nothing is new in automotive engineering after 1904. Well I am not quite sure about that but I agree with the principle.
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Dave- please elaborate on your data set and figuring principles that allowed you to work up your 4 h.p. figure.
We're talking the difference here between brake horse power (bhp) and horse power as used, years ago, for taxation purposes.
The bhp is a measure of how powerful an engine is - so, for example, a basic Villiers 197 might give about 9 bhp, but could be tuned, in racing format, to give about 30 bhp.
When we talk, though, of Austin 7, 12, 16, etc, Morris 8, 10, 12, Lanchester 14, and so on, then we're referring to the "horsepower" by which those cars were taxed. The formula for calculating that hp (the "RAC" horsepower) takes no account of how much power the engine actually produces (!), but concerns only the area of the top of the piston:
RAC hp = bore (in inches) squared, times number of cylinders, divided by 2.5
For the 328cc Berkeley engine, that's 2.283 squared, times 2, divided by 2.5.
Since the RAC hp system continued for many years as the basis for annual car tax in the UK, it greatly influenced the production of narrow-bore, long stroke engines - nicely torquey, and easy to drive, but neither spritely nor particularly economical!
Britain stopped using the RAC hp to determine car tax at the beginning of 1947, but the public (and motoring magazines) continued into the 50s sometimes to talk of engines in those terms.
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Could anything be worse than letting English politicians play physicist?
Hmm...other side of Chunnel a 2 CV at half the politician "rated " horsepower" of the Berk and somewhat greater weight gets you close to the same top speed.
Anybody have a clue as to their formula for distorting actual H.P.?
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Errr yes, letting American politicians play physicist! ;)
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Here in the US the only variations on horsepower quoting are based on actual conditions of performance, i.e. with or without power robbing accessories, or measured on a dyno vs. at the rear wheels.
there is also a nod to DIN horsepower which gives only slightly different figures, and may have some basis in German convention.
By and large, we don't let our politicians wreak havoc on our beloved horsepower ratings. ;)
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hi steven don't get the impression the Royal Automobile Club , RAC , are politicians . Whilst i don't know the background to this issue I imagine the government took a rating as used by the RAC already or asked them to come up with a scale . I think it fair to assume the RAC were " non political " though
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Actually, what the "politicians*" were doing was quite sensible: to settle on a simply-quantified system of taxing a larger-engined vehicle more than a smaller-engined one.
Doing so by actual power output would be argumentative and uwieldy.
What was ridiculous was to call it 'horsepower'!
[*In the UK, anyway, a decision on the practical implementation of the desire for a taxation system would have been a government department, rather than political, matter.]
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am i right in saying that in America the dept. staff would be " political " , in Britain they would not be ?
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At a tangent. If horsepower were taxed, suddenly claims of neddys in engines would be reduced to a lower, more likely, average level to get products registered cheaply and continued sales advantage. Pure engine size is no more accurate, and that was used as a system for a while. Now we are on emissions, having scrapped lean burn technology. It all sounds political to me, as does State theft in the first place.
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am i right in saying that in America the dept. staff would be " political " , in Britain they would not be ?
No