RUMCars Forum

General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on March 09, 2015, 07:52:45 PM

Title: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: richard on March 09, 2015, 07:52:45 PM
The last three new cars on my scene have been The Opperman Unicar , spares from a crashed car included TWO completely bald tyres , the blue G Tourer rear end ,  I bought from Cornwall , with TWO completely bald tyres ( but a perfect spare rusted to its bracket in the boot ) and now the Welsh Bond D with .... you have guessed it TWO completely bald tyres . Was it a pre '63 MOT thing ? taken off the road when they needed to pass an MOT ?
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: AndyL on March 09, 2015, 07:59:26 PM
I know what you mean, the two wheels on the front of my isetta with the original Goodyear crossply tyres were running close to slicks!
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: marcus on March 09, 2015, 08:15:21 PM
"Dunlop Baldmasters" was the name my friends and I gave to bald tyres back in the 1970s, a variation of Dunlop Roadmasters. Bald tyres were a regular part of life in those cash-strapped days, but people seem to keep a few to fit on any car they sell!
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Big Al on March 10, 2015, 07:34:28 AM
Tonsures in the cloisters of old collections. The noble baldness of the holey project, left long years. Yeah, though I had tread through the valley of DEFRA, I shall fear no Wirrall. For I shall drive on the right side of the road, when I am restored in Devon.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Barry on March 10, 2015, 08:26:53 AM
My Velocette LE tyres were only just worn-in.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Big Al on March 10, 2015, 10:58:01 AM
I prefer to chuck out bald old tyres than chunk treaded, deaded, tyres that might have had life left if only they were not ancient. If only...... Still recall Root nearly blowing his ears off with NOS IC tyres on the Llandudno cars. The rubber had rotted allowing the inner tubes to burst out like huge hernias. With no space in the rear of the van the explosion was pretty effective.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: plas man on March 12, 2015, 08:44:42 PM
 nothing new here then , Bonds just love grinding off the front tyre rubber , even when new less than 2,000 miles would have you running on the canvas , but with the trye laws Bond owners would risk it ( ;)) after all it was out of sight !!!
legal would see about !,000 mile - but with now-a-days the crap rubber used front tyre life is around 900 mile,s , remember that these carry the mouldings to tell its down to the legal depth 2mm - (1.5mm on a three wheeler ) , now a set of radials on a Mk G will be good for 3,000 mile - but they are illegal ,  the Bond 875 is the only legal 3 wheeler with radial's (design of the stearing ) , and they have to be fabric belted .
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: AndyL on March 12, 2015, 09:11:18 PM
Radials illegal on a Bond. Why is that?
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: richard on March 12, 2015, 09:36:53 PM
actually all of these tyres , and also of the Unicar , have been from the rear wheels goodness knows what the fronts were like  :)
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Bob Purton on March 12, 2015, 11:12:50 PM
" the Bond 875 is the only legal 3 wheeler with radial's (design of the stearing ) , and they have to be fabric belted "   

I think you will have to qualify that statement..
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: DaveMiller on March 13, 2015, 07:01:37 AM
I'm intrigued.  I'm aware that it would be illegal to mix crossply and radial on one axle, and that if only one end of the car has radials it must be the rear (presumably, in both cases, to avoid the car swinging round under harsh braking) but I've not heard of a general ban.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Barry on March 13, 2015, 07:24:53 AM
What type of tyres should I fit to the Invacar model 70 then?  Radials at the moment.

If mixing crossplys and radials, I thought the radials had to be on the driving wheels, not always the back wheels?
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Bob Purton on March 13, 2015, 09:09:14 AM
I wonder how Grinnell Scorpions get there type approval and MOT with those big fat radials all round?

Maybe plasman is just talking about Bonds here or maybe just single front wheel steering cars, either way, more clarification is required.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Big Al on March 13, 2015, 09:11:13 AM
The Bond 875 had the clever, if stillborn, idea of steering including changing the camber of the wheel angle. It would thus, in theory, present the full tread at a better angle of attack to the road. In practice other issues rather negated the effect, so I feel we never got to find out how well that idea worked.
Could not comment on legalities of tyres. I am fairly sure there was a restriction on radial tyres for three wheelers. But is it still in force? As to the use of radials on IC, you must remember these, historically, are not cars, but appliances. Only recently have they become cars, by positive action of the ICR, and the resulting default action of our wonderful Government.
There is also the historical difference of a Trike under 71/2 CWT and a vehicle featuring a trike wheelplan. These used not to be the same, and still are not - see Motorcycle and sidecar, which is not a tricycle. One lot was drivable on a Provisional license, Some a Motorcycle license, the other, not either - Reliant Ant in work. That relationship has been changed about 4 times in 40 years, I think, mainly to remove L plate drives from Trikes and harmonise the laws with Europe and metric measures. So there is every chance the law has got so screwed up in reality that Trikes can only be driven without tyres, unless by someone not qualified to drive them!
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: super-se7en (Malc Dudley) on March 13, 2015, 02:21:36 PM
The Morgan Aero i think has radials and that has type approval. My 1200cc scorpion was perfect on radials but the tyre pressures were in the low teens.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: DaveMiller on March 13, 2015, 05:42:49 PM
Construction and Use Regs set out what you can and can't mix:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/cy/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/26/made?view=plain

As I read that, you can't have radials at the front and crossply at the rear, irrespective of front or rear wheel drive, and for rear wheel drive, you can't mix at all!

The Regs refer to "vehicles" and make clear, in the introductory part of 26.(2), that three-wheelers are treated in the same way.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Bob Purton on March 13, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
Thanks for posting that Dave. Looks like I'm still ok with my radials on all three wheels then.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: skootashaun on March 13, 2015, 10:03:14 PM
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s04000101.htm
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Bob Purton on March 13, 2015, 11:15:09 PM
Thanks Shaun.  It would appear plasman is wrong then.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Big Al on March 14, 2015, 07:31:31 AM
When is he wrong? I can think of 8 classes that a threewheeler wheelplan can be, and of 4 changes to the laws covering at least some of them. Now you could argue he should prove his point. However, he can argue that you should prove him wrong, as if he is right, even in part, then you might be braking the law.
Bit like all these young 'uns towing with vans without a Tacho, or driving overweight vehicles, placing them in a class that they are unqualified for. I am lucky. I have full old fogey rights backed by action to retain several classes most seem not to have noticed need a special qualification for now, like buses with passengers.
I fear a full answer is a bit more complex than currently presented.

Most production vehicles will have a specification that states the correct tyres to use. Needless to say all those who are ignoring these recommendations will have told their insurer that they have modified their car........
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Bob Purton on March 14, 2015, 08:39:31 AM
I'm referring to the statement "the 875 is the only legal three wheeler with radials." This to me infers that any three wheeler other than said cannot use radials at all and the legal statements along with the mot testers guide lines do not appear to suggest this. I'm not contending anything else, just that point. I am probably taking it out of context but until plasman signs back on and picks up the thread we will not know.
I have a recollection of Steve taking his Reliant Ant for the MOT with a radial on the front and crossply's on the back and it failing for this reason. I think it was ok the otherway around. I'm guessing this is what our friend is referring to.

I again sight the Grinnell Scorpion, type approved and sold new with radials.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: DaveMiller on March 14, 2015, 09:09:37 AM

Reading the MoT guidelines helps me understand the Construction & Use Regs better.  I'd read the C&U para (4) to mean that steered tyres and driven tyres must match in construction.  However, the MoT guidelines are clearer, and I now see it as all driven tyres must match, and all steered tyres must match. Not easy, is it!

That does make sense, though, as you'd want those driving and steering forces to be properly balanced, so's not to induce skidding?
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Big Al on March 14, 2015, 09:17:24 AM
I do not understand quite what he means either. But everyone is assuming a three wheeler is a type of vehicle. It isn't, is what I am saying. So you need to know what you are comparing with what.

A loaded Reliant Ant, up to half a ton, depending on specs - probably including tyre recommendation, is not in the provisional driving category. So unless the 875 is overweight they are not the same. A comparison cannot be made. Without specs I do not know the weight of an unloaded Ant, so I do not know who can drive it, in that condition. From the off Reliant flirted with the weight limit, and if we get down to it, most are illegal in use, without a full licence. It has just been the case that the letter of the law has not been applied, as in the two other cases I mentioned previously. Indeed micronauts should be angry about that, as the opposition was able to gain unfair advantage, by not sticking to the rules. Its water under the bridge now, and Reliants themselves have become an endangered species.   
A Scammel Scarab is a three wheeler. Most are not classed as such. They can be locomotives, thus allowing them to tow more than one trailer on the highways. I can drive one. I do not think most people under about 48 can. I am willing to bet a Scarab that is a locomotive, has a different spec to one that is not.

Might be fun to invite DVLA/VOSA inspectors to the National to see how many folk are illegal. We have not even touched trailers yet! Ignorance is bliss, to be honest. I am happy to leave cars standard unless I research a way to advance them that genuinely looks like an improvement worth the effort. That has become more sharply compared to other options outside microcars, as values have harmonised with other options for transportation.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Bob Purton on March 14, 2015, 01:04:57 PM
Thats one way to reduce the attendance at the National!
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: super-se7en (Malc Dudley) on March 14, 2015, 02:56:39 PM
If the DVLA turn up at the national i will charge them £5000 to come in then only allow them into the next field!
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: richard on March 14, 2015, 03:42:46 PM
surely even thats a bit close for comfort  ;)
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: richard on March 14, 2015, 05:00:16 PM
talk of young uns driving without tachos - you must have been thinking of me  :) When I borrowed by brothers 71/2 tonner this was considered . Although not an HGV the regular drivers needed to take a course and obviously use a tachogram BUT this all seems to revolve around  " monetary gain  ". The driver told me that an example had been used on the course that if he had been driving in his own time for no monetary gain , for example to collect a car for himself he was okay without the tacho . As I assured by brothers that I was sure to make no monetary gain the tacho was removed . Myself and Micros do not normally make financial gain !!  ;D
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: Big Al on March 15, 2015, 01:11:38 AM
That seems so, Richard. Likewise bus passengers, un-paying, are different to bus passengers paying for the driving licensing as an old fogey. The PSV rules supersede some of the older stuff. maybe we should fit Phealius Fogg Tachos instead.
Title: Re: old cars and bald tyres
Post by: plas man on April 01, 2015, 03:47:31 PM
just had the Wagon R in for MOT , and back home noticed the tester had marked all the tyres sizes and dot numbers in yellow marker , some thing new ???