RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: AndyL on April 01, 2015, 08:40:56 PM
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This one has me stumped. The gear change rod that leads from the gearstick through to the bell crank seems to be impossible to thread through the hole in the firewall. Every time it gets caught on the lug that the threaded pivoting clevis screws into.
I've removed all hardware from the rod, and tried twiddling it about as much as I can.
Naff all in the manuals about this either.
Bit embarrassing to be honest, such a simple part. My Dad suggested cutting it in half!! :o
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It is a vexing process, but once you know the secret it can be done repeatedly with little effort.
I have done this myself several times in the past and EVERY TIME I forget how I did it previously.
remove the shift lever and try pulling it out from underneath and BEHIND.
don't try and pull the tube into the cabin, pull it out the other way.
The shifter section at the end looks like it won't fit through, but it will if you angle the tube a bit.
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I've tried pulling it through that way, but it wouldn't go. However I still have the shell bolted on the chassis, so it might need to wait until it comes off.
If they'd made the hole a bit bigger, the rod would come out easily! Bad design really.
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'You may think that. But I could not possibly comment'.
Is it not covered in the JJ book of doing naughty things to your Isetta in America? Sadly I do not have a copy, as I do not do anything to Isettas, unless they are Vellam. Quite frankly I would be happy not to do that either! However that is another story.
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Everything is do'able on an Isetta Andy, its just a matter of acquiring the knowledge and the patience to learn. Wait until you try and fit the firewall gaitor! Stick at it.
Isetta's are for men like us, not whimps! ;)
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I assume that the firewall gaiter is not held in place by a crocodile clip, then, if a caiman across it. Probably Gary all to do with it, but I will monitor the situation.
So BMW does not stand for Bubblecars Mit Whimps. For all these years....... Actually I would agree. They are manly machines, despite being small. You need man skills to make them work, make them pretty, and in some ways, to drive them. That's not to say ladies cannot have them, but I would expect them to always be a minority. A Treinkel is more of a ladies car in use, perhaps, but its fragility, or need for service, would put most off.
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I'm not out of patience, just a bit bamboozled, as I tried what I thought was every iteration feasible to thread it through from inside the car, and no dice.
No information on this in the John Jensen tome, original workshop manual or Cassell book of the Isetta
If they'd made the hole in the firewall a few millimetres larger in diameter, it would slide out easily.
I'd say that in pretty much all other aspects the Isetta is an easy to work on vehicle, with most of the headaches resulting from frozen or rusted up parts on a very old car.
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Hmm. Not sure about that. Doing the top of the engine without a tin opener is fun. The carb is cunningly surrounded by space that you cannot use to get at it. I could go on. The design tends to offer about twice as many parts as you would find on other, more realistically minimalist, microcars. Not a prob if your not a minimalist fan, of course, but an Isetta is definitely a small car, not a cyclecar, enclosed scooter or other inter dimensional concept no one actually asked for. So, yep, compared to a car like a Mini, it is a simple device.
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No argument from me that there were more elegant designs. Cars like the Messerschmitt and the Heinkel benefited enormously from input by aeroplane engineers.
Anyway, I've got the critter out. I found by revolving the rod so that the spigot that holds the rotating clevis was at 12'o'clock, and using a bit of persuasion I was able to get it out, but boy was it tight, virtually zero clearance, so I'll be making a small adjustment to that rod so it goes back in a lot easier, because as it is, I'll either end marring the finish on the body or the rod- probably both- when reinstalling.
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I agree with all. Most definitely over engineered so could have been much lighter and simpler. Earnest certainly addressed all these thing when he came up with the Heinkel. Still. they are what they are and I like them. I envy you though Andy, I would love to have done a total restro on mine but I bought mine allegedly restored. I have had to go over virtually everything and do it properly, a real lesson learned for me. There is restored and made to look pretty, mine was the later.
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No information on this in the John Jensen tome...
on page 105 of the original or Section 3.04 SHIFT LINKAGE #3 if you have a reprint:
If you are doing any serious body work and repainting, you can remove the shift tube by sliding it out towards the rear.
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I tried sliding it out towards the rear, it wouldn't go.
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So did BMW add the over-engineering as they revised the design, or was it present from the Iso Isetta origins?
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Never seen an Iso Isetta in the flesh so to speak. Everything was changed on the BMW version, although the basic concept remained. The most obvious alteration was the change from a two stroke twin to a single cylinder four stroke.
The sliding window revision moved further from the original by incorporating a very different body style alongside vertical suspension and hydraulic dampers in place of the friction dampers on the bubble windows.
The car that deviated the most from the Iso spec chassis wise I think was the Velam, as that used subframes rather than a full ladder frame chassis.
I believe there were certain conditions under the license which prevented the companies building Isetta's from moving too far outside the original concept.
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The velam even had Nieman ring suspension like an Inter. Still used today on some French trailers.
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It is intriguing how varied the different Isetta's are in comparison to other cars built under licence, particularly given the Hoffman episode.
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It's not surprising that BMW came down on the Hoffman like a ton of bricks, it looked a better design in pretty much all respects. Lovely layout with the little flat twin.
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BMW and Velem shared little, so Vellem departed on their own vision of what an Isetta should be. It is, I think, the prettiest of Isettas. It is completely different. To the extant comparison is quite difficult. The Vellam is veering toward minimalism. It therefore has less power, a more archaic feel to it, yet it wins you over with some classic bonkers Gallic whimsy.
The 250cc German Isetta I had was actually quite a reasonable drive despite useless brakes that caught fire. I would liken the Vellam as a KR175, to the 250cc's KR200. Yet I never had a British Isetta that came near the 250 in driving performance. Were the German cars so much better, or was it that all the other Isettas I had were crappers? I think the German car was better made.
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The engine and drive train was all German on the UK cars though. Unless they sent us all the Monday morning and Friday afternoon stuff!
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They just vary from car to car. My first one, a RHD was very lively where as Thumper has to be persuaded.
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The engine and drive train was all German on the UK cars though. Unless they sent us all the Monday morning and Friday afternoon stuff!
What was all the who-ha over German short pistons and British long pistons, or the other way round? Why did our cars have the valves with the heads that fell off for quite some time? I do not hear of this blight anything so much as I do from British Isetta. Maybe your right. I have forgotten much of what I knew about Isettas. But I know about 2/3rds of that which fits a German Isetta does not fit our standard British version. Some of that will be important bits that alter performance. Simply being a trike changes everything.
My personal feeling is an Isetta is actually an easy car to get going, but a heard car to get spot on. Phil Bowler had that old 250 pretty well sorted.
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They're a mass produced vehicle, so tolerances are going to vary from machine to machine. If you go carefully through the engine and running gear, blueprinting everything, you stand a better chance of getting a good running car.
The Japanese companies adopted a policy of zero tolerance on their parts (at least zero within the limits of the measuring equipment used), this is one big reason they got a reputation for consistent and reliable machinery.
A few people seem to think the friction welded valves were a cheap bodge, but I think differently. The kind of metal that makes a good valve head doesn't work so well for the stem when it comes to wear characteristics. The one piece valves will be much stronger, but will probably wear faster. Probably not a major issue these days, as the cars don't tend to run high mileage.
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Yes but what would you rather have, a worn stem for which you get some warning or a head coming off and destroying your engine? There are still a few of us who are not adverse to hacking there Isetta's down the motorway and clocking up some miles but the lessons learned from history are to keep the revs down. I dont like to hold it in top faster than 45 for any length of time. I prefer 40 but on the Motorways thats a little too slow.
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They just vary from car to car. My first one, a RHD was very lively where as Thumper has to be persuaded.
How much do you weigh now Bob?
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Ha ha! Exactly the same as I weighed at 16 years of age when had the RHD. 10 stone.
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The advice from my Dad was to keep them at 40mph, although he drove Heinkel's (owned by Peter Green)and his own Messershcmitt KR200. They toured France in the KR200 and only suffered a broken throttle slide spring (fixed with a large washer bridging the two pieces), and drove the Heinkel to Gibraltar and back the following year over a two week period (all the annual leave you got back then). No major mechanical problems, apart from a bent track rod and worn tyre- Peter took a turn a bit too quick and put the car in a ditch whilst driving through Spain.
The following year Peter took a trip to Germany with his brother, and the Heinkel. During the trip the gearbox couldn't get fourth gear. They ragged the engine in third, and it went bang. Stranded in Germany they ordered up a complete new engine and gearbox from Stuttgart. Apparently they fell on their feet whilst waiting for the items to arrive,as a couple of frau's put them up, and I think they got more than bed and breakfast if you get my drift!
My Dad almost owned an Isetta, a shiny red one he saw in a dealer in Finchley, but it was a bit more than he could afford at the time, as it was only a year old, whereas his KR200 was a 1955 model, which I think cost him 75 quid in 1963.
Owners that drove Isetta's over long distances and high mileages like Vic Locke and Brian Westoby also said 40mph cruise, with the occasional burst up to 45mph. I think it was Brian that got over 200000 miles out of his Isetta engine before it needed major work, so that kind of proves the point that these engines will last if you don't belt the guts out of them.
Even at 40 mph the engine is working fairly hard. The bubbles would have benefited enormously from an extra gear or two, but I guess for the roads of the day, they were considered adequate.
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Indeed. Road speed his climbed with density, till density has started to win. Planning your trip to use byways and timing to miss rush hours can see travel made in very quick time. But even given the unfair advantage of a sat nav, most choose not to do this. So it is still possible to use older cars, but its is preferable to select a suitable route. Likewise, where traffic is slow the older car can happily keep up, like in town.
The chaps who did high miles had another thing in common. Attention to detail. Bernard Beeston, KR175, hit half a million many years ago. They all took car of their cars, used them regularly. So their 40 mph was probably a real 40 mph, not the imaginary one of many folk impressed by inaccurate speedos and noise. There is no doubt the excess performance shortens the life of the engine. Two strokes prefer some revs but with Sachs driven hard you can be looking at a new set of rings, or a bore, at 20/25k miles. Not as radicule as a valve issue - related to a certain type of vale not made to a good enough specification or tolerance. Certainly serviced 4 strokes seem to have been averagely happy to reach 45k before some fault saw them come off the road. In comparison my Austin Big Seven was good up to 50 mph, but happy at 45 mph. There were still a lot of those sorts of cars on the road in the early '60's.
I had my time in Treinkels, and they go well when allowed to. However I preferred the strokers in Messerschmitt and Goggomobil as the top speed was so much greater. But I was doing mostly country driving, where I could keep the kettle boiling. In town the Schmitt is not so happy. The Goggo gets on with it, but after a while it longs to have a blat to clean itself out a bit. The four strokes do not have this 'temperament' to deal with, and in a good car the acceleration in traffic is acceptable. Hills are less of an issue. So your location for driving does make a difference.