RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: messyman on February 09, 2016, 10:50:58 PM
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just been offered a bond 875 car in poor state ''which is how I normally buy my cars'' what's the parts situation with these types of micros ....I no most engine stuff is Hillman imp or summit but more info would be nice ......!
pictures will follow as soon as it lands
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Grab now, regroup later.
At the very very worst, you will have parts to sell. ;D
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The engine was the lowest powered Hillman Imp Van, based on the Husky version, apparently tuned down from the saloons with a low compression engine. All the ancillaries will therefore be of that base vehicle, like the AC fuel pump. The front suspension and steering are pure Bond. I really am then at a loss to know. But these parts will be from the manufacturers parts bins..
Bond 875 are always treated as if they are valueless. That is unfair. However they are a pretty hairy thing to drive. They should be embraced as nothing like this would be allowed to exist now. Their worst habit is to get wind under the front of the car. This can be wind, or your right foot pressure. Either way many have chosen to add weight to the front of the car. You need not worry about a lack of power, there is more than the car can cope with!
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A tuned Imp engine would give 150bhp per ton.
Probably not a good idea with that chassis though! ;D
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I still think the camber action Bond steering is quite clever. It suffers quite rapid wear apparently. I never did the miles to find out! It would probably have worked if it had actually been bolted to a much more solid bulkhead assembly. Its there I get ever so slightly scared. What happens at 90 when you hit a bit of wood in the middle of the road, no sorry it was a French Fridge at regulo 7.
Is it a standard Mk of 875 or one of the rather more trimmed Two Strokes versions?
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Hi messyman I owned a bond 875 for 6 years and there is nothing to fear apart from driving it above 60 mph ;D . parts ways pretty much everything as you said is hillman imp including rear suspension brakes etc I was told the steering box was a left hand drive standard 8/10 one !? But the front suspension was pretty reliable as was the car in general was but like Al said the are too fast for there own good while they are very light at the front at sensible speeds the are fine just don't lift off in a corner , and running the tyre Presure around 16 psi transformed the handling I also managed to squeeze a 155 radial on the front which made a huge difference. But made it heavy on the steering . On the subject of steering . The lock is pathetic even a really tight bend can land you on the wrong side of the white lines . But there is no chassis rot to worry about . They don't have one good luck Gary
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Hi messyman I owned a bond 875 for 6 years and there is nothing to fear apart from driving it above 60 mph. On the subject of steering . The clock is pathetic even a really tight bend can land you on the wrong side of the white lines .
What are you intending to convey here?
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Clock, typo for lock. Steering turning circle is large.
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Evidently Bonds have been designed by extremists with little regard for brand tradition.
The only Bond that I ever saw making a U turn did so within the space of its own wheelbase!
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The original Minicar (now known as Mk A) was also fairly poor in its turning circle - or perhaps it just feels that way after driving a later version.
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The turning circle of the 875 was a product of its novel progressive cambering steering. Clearly you can only camber up a single wheel so far before you compromise steering at speed. Add the flimsy nature of the bulkhead in the car to cope with the exponetial force of drag and I will settle for the lesser turning circle. But is it a poor turning circle? Compared with what? The main run of Minicars, and the Equipes had seriously good turning circles, Is this a case of expectation not meeting with fulfilment. I do not recall it being a problem. THe car was nimble enough to use the road surface to avoid reverse in some cases, just rolling back, as in a Schmitt.
The turning circle that was more of a problem was that of the front's angle to the road and any sort of steering from the front wheel at all.
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Having owned a Plas for more than 40 years that should say it all !
Most question's have been answered , most important check the steering downtube for cracking/fractures at the bend'y bit , and same check's on the bulkhead brackets that hold the steering to the car .
Top and bottom steering bush's are easy replaced as well as track rod ends (mini) ,
Check rear sub frame for crack's/corrosion (its a pain to re-new).
Also worth fitting a front radiator (car heater one is big enough) .
Most important this car has floating back plate to the front brake , I have known the clayfex arm to snap at its fixing bolt/bush , this must be kept in tip top condition .
Also the front brake is a common excuse for MOT failure's as the tester (the younger ones) wont know the back plate moves
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A guy in the shipyard where I worked in the 70s with an 875 was fond of misquoting Muhammad Ali that his Bond "floated like a butterfly and stung like a butterfly"
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The turning circle of the 875 was a product of its novel progressive cambering steering. Clearly you can only camber up a single wheel so far before you compromise steering at speed.
The turning circle that was more of a problem was that of the front's angle to the road and any sort of steering from the front wheel at all.
I know nothing of Bond steering mechanism - so neither of theses statements make any sense to me yet.
Has anyone got a diagram/ article that they can post that will explain what is being mentioned here?
Does the progressive element of the first statement vary with speed or suspension compression?
Does the latter statement refer to some sort of bump steer?
Any typos mucking up meaning again?
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No no. The steering yolk allows the front wheel to turn, as normal, but as it takes on more angle it leans it over. More like a motorcycle. Speed is no real element, nor suspension compression, to this action. I understand with the balance of the car improved they behave really rather well. But as has been said. Regular checks and early servicing are best action with this unusual system. But it would not be a Bond if it were normal, would it?
My second comment is a observation humour based on the ability of this car to pull wheelies at will, or due to wind getting under the front of the car. I recall rescuing Martin Surgison (Spelling) from a crash on the A40 where his 875 was blown clean of the road, upside down into a hedge while on the way to Burford Rally. Martin is probably best remembered for his orange fur covered Isetta. Someone must have a pic of that somewhere.
Frankly, as a owner of mad and overpowered trikes I think the Bond 875 is made for you, Steve. You can put a 5 bearing 1,000cc screamer racing engine straight in, or a Simca/Pug machined oversize unit. But seeing as a standard one driven by Dabbs overtook me on the way to the Dutch Rally chasing a 750cc triple Berkeley, chasing a Porche 911, with its front wheel about 3 foot off the ground and not backing off, I am not sure you need the extra power! I did the only thing a Schmitter could do. I hid behind the nearest truck going a bit faster than I could cruise at. It was a mad day on the Autobahn.
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I would have thought the Bond 875 would be worth restoring - maybe not in value but as motoring heritage , company out of production , around 3,500 made (that includes Mk1 Mk2 and vans) , less than a couple of hundred survived , only a handful roadworthy .
What ever is decided Radial tyres are a must
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No no. The steering yolk allows the front wheel to turn, as normal, but as it takes on more angle it leans it over. More like a motorcycle.
I was thinking that you meant caster, but now see how you were saying that increased cater affects camber progressively with turn in.
To your suggestion that I buy a Bond 1,000cc - in addition to liking my three wheelers to stay right side up, I also require them to avoid inclinations towards the vertical.
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Bond steering don't have a King Pin.
Careful on copying Minicar steering its patented .
(I was once failed MOT on a King Pin ? , I argued , in the end it was the working floating back plate that the examiner had never seen - it passed ! )
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A picture or drawing of the mechanism used by Bond could be illuminating here. ;)
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All I could find in a short search was:
(http://www.quantums.info/pictures/bond/aug2000-27-896.JPG)
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Thanks Andy.
Is it a full fiberglass monocoque?
Even if so, it does not appear robust enough to ease worries.
I would at least add a triangulating member to the leading arm, and a large aluminum plate to back up the smaller steel one that mounts to the firewall.
Might also add some thin plywood and big washers one the occupant side of the firewall to absorb and spread out incipient stress loads over a wider area, and thus closer to the strengthening flanges at the perimeter of this flat in the casting.
What have others done in this regard.
If others have failed in use or accident - what did the failure look like?
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The construction has some commonality with the Berkeley, I think. It has aluminium panelling in the floor structure, probably with steel stiffeners , and pick up points where there is stress, I forget. The rear takes its cues from the Imp donor. It is of course a closed car, so gains strength from that., meaning that the floor is a light structure.
Modifying the structure. I do not know about the bulkhead and if folk have made efforts to improve its strength. We are back to the point that it is adequate for what the car is designed for. It is not, if owners choose to do things it is not designed for. Back in the day, that was the owners problem and responsibility to other road users. Nowadays it seen as less so. I think that is a wrong move, but shortly we will be banned from even driving cars, relying on computers to create all the accidents. Is that progress? If your thick, or useless, I guess it is. But encouraging ignorance is anti Darwinism in action.
What I do know is that some cars had extra radiators, moved battery and even concrete kerbing section bonded into the front of the car to move the centre of gravity forward and improve cooling at the same time. I do not know if the MkII version had a more central centre of gravity as part of the facelift. It certainly would not be a great problem to beef the bulkhead up.
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Al is right about the body with box section aluminium built in along with a few steel bits , bulkhead strength is accomplished with full width parcel/glove shelf .
Also it must be born in mind that the prototype was all that one could wish for , BUT when Bond submitted it to the government for testing it failed on the weight , coming in at over 9 hundred weight instead of under 8 , so drastic measure's at the drawing board took place , starting with the mudguard/floor area around the front wheel , petrol tank, along with other weight saving items , the glass fibre doors with triplex winding windows was replaced with flimsy alloy ones with PX sliding windows , side and rear windows was replaced with PX, seat frames modified , smaller tyres fitted , heater pipes reduced from 1/2 inch to 3/8th's , the list goes on ! , and finally they fitted a low compression engine .
thus you got what you have to-day . the 875 unit pushing 8 cwt along instead of the 12 cwt of the Imp/Husky van .
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On its "government testing - it failed on weight". Meaning it was too heavy, and many parts of the design that were needed for structural/ occupant safety, as well as reliability/ durability of the vehicle got functionally down graded for the sake of light weighting.
I am all for sensible light weighting, but am shocked that a government would require modifications to an already minimal design that reduced crash integrity, and hence both occupant safety, and durability / reliability of a vehicle.
This is so completely opposite of what legislators have required in increasing doses for the last near half century in the US, that I cannot conceive of what your beaurocrats were thinking. ???
Somebody please fill in the big blank here.
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In pre-Ralph Nader days structural/ occupant safety was not a factor. Government constraints/ regulations on general design at this time were more about brakes, lights and steering. The weight limit was nothing to do with safety, it was to do with the rate of tax payable - both annual (vehicle excise duty) and on purchase. In 1965 the annual tax on a 8cwt three-wheeler was £8 a year (@$206 today). If it was over 8cwt (or had 4 wheels) it would be £17 10s (@$415 today)
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And beyond the tax difference was the difference in licence required. Below 8cwt (~400 kg) the car could be driven by those who had just a motorcycle licence. Above that weight, and despite its three wheels, it would require a car licence.
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Thanks for the explanations.
In the US we get taxed on vehicle value only.
At least for the older vehicles that have not exchanged recently for significant sums, this amount is quite a bit less than you Brits are being charged.
However for a well known high value vehicle, registration can be quite expensive here also, although the DMV's assigned valuations are typically more influenced by a depreciating scale that uses the last of the actual vehicle's reported sale price as a set point.
I believe this to be true even on appreciating, but not recently sold vehicles.
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Wow a fair bit of reading material to go through ....well to keep u upto date the 875 has landed today
Plus over last weekend I managed to bag a reliant realto se
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The tax on the road for vehicles has changed several times in its rating sources since the '60's. The great thing is pre 1973 cars attract no road tax now. Pre 1960 require no MOT either. So you only need insurance. I do not do modern cars so I have lost touch with the latest tax regime. It based on artificial CO2 production statistics. I think.
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Well I try and get some pics up for the weekend of the project s that are going on
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that's great news , once restored/on the road learn how to handle it - you'll either love it or get rid
keep us posted
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The great thing is pre 1973 cars attract no road tax now.
Applies to pre 1976 now, and rolls over each year.
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Is that a typo, Andy?
I think it's "built before 1 January 1975".
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(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0010.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/923)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0011.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/924)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0012.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/925)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0013.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/926)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0014.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/927)
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(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0015.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/928)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0016.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/929)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0017.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/930)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0018.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/931)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/19/12/30/13/sunp0019.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/19123013/932)
my other new buy reliant riato
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Nice to have someone adding pictures of there projects on the forum, good effort with the find
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no worries I try to add as many as I can get
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That is a MkI isn't it? I have a dead Imp up north.
Reliant look pretty fair.
Shed envy. What is the white sporting number? Ginetta G15?
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Is that a typo, Andy?
I think it's "built before 1 January 1975".
1976 as of 1st April anyways. Not far away now.
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Lotus europa
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do we get the restoration on video ?
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Well bought as they are going up now. Missed the boat.
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Lotus Europa was my first love. I have been an owner for 45 years. :)
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Restoring for a customer im afraid so it's not mine lol
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Lotus Elite was always my favourite.
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Lol no quite the micro
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That is a MkI isn't it? I have a dead Imp up north.
imp motors change hands for around 500 quid .
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Oh goody. Do you want mine? Get a free car with it. Lives in Cumbria at the moment.