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41
Links to Microcar Clubs, museums, Websites, Forums etc / TonyMarshall
« Last Post by Jean on December 17, 2020, 10:28:40 AM »
It is with great sadness that I  have to tell you Tony died on Monday 14th December. The microcar world has lost the person who brought us to the notice of the motoring world and who worked unstintedley to improve their understanding of the important part they  took in postwar world motoring history.
Our condolences go out to his step-sister Sue who watched over him when he moved to Orkney about five years ago. Rest in peace my dear friend. Jean
42
Unusual Microcar Discussion / Re: Bruetsch or Victoria Spatz ?
« Last Post by Chris Thomas on December 14, 2020, 02:21:15 PM »
The following information has been sent to me as it adds to the discussion, even if it is 4.5 years later.

There are two different models of the Victoria Spatz. This is described at "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatz_(automobile)".
The number of produced cars is slightly higher then the numbers given at wikipedia, as this are the production numbers from Victoria (Nuremberg) only.
Victoria sold the remaining car parts to the plane factory Burgfalke which then assembled an unknon number of further cars "https://www.mittelbayerische.de/region/schwandorf-nachrichten/spatz-wird-zum-burgfalken-21416-art868343.html".

The highest serial number known to me is in the range of 1720.

The number of Victoria Spatz produced was so small that many parts are same as in other cars of that time.  Over the years Victoria installed brake cylinders of varying sizes (14, 15, 19mm). Some are identical to VW Kaefer, some identical to the ones used in Porsche 356. The main brake cylinder is same size as in the LLoyd Alexander. Most of the electrical switches and the instrument cluster are identical with the ones used in the Heinkel Kabin. The motor of the first model with 200 cmm is very similar to the motor used in the Messerschmitt Kabinenroller. The motor of the 250 ccm model and the electrically operated gear box is unique from Victoria.

There are a number of Victoria Spatz on public display, for example at the Deutsches Museum at Munich or at the St├Ądtisches Museum at Nuremberg. In 2020 a Victoria Spatz 250 got auctioned at Vienna
(Austria) and another was offered at Ebay in 2019. There was also a valid offer and one fraudulent offer on Ebay in 2020.

Chris Thomas
43
Those look lovely
44
Sales & Auctions / Re: Ligier for Sale
« Last Post by steven mandell on December 10, 2020, 05:16:29 PM »
Seemed nice enough, especially as it was the better looking 4 headlight model instead of the still good looking JS8 that followed it in production.
Sold for 2,240 GBP also seemed fair enough considering the overall condition.
As  the ad said, no structural rust, but I do see the lower door corners have begun to stain through from the devil's worm starting to feed there.
 They are well engineered , but made of very thin metal, so can literally be dented with a vigorous pressing of one's thumb.  So finding one undented is unlikely.
The reason for the thinness of the metal was to try to keep the wieght down, as that pretty, but very large green house comes at the expense of greater wieght.  The measure was but partly successful, as these cars are a bit over wieght for their 49cc engines. 
This produces the irony of well engineered, independently suspended product of a Formula One manufacturer, that was one of the slowest in top speed for the entire Sans Permis class.
I've heard that 20 mph is about all that they are good for.

Pity, all that excellent engineering not being propelled to more worthy limits.
I've often wondered how easy it might be to fit one of the more modern two cylinder 22 h.p. units under the seat and just run the belt from that unit's infinitely variable trans to the existent drive pulley on the JS4 , or JS8, as the case could be.
Steve Fisk- are you reading this?
Could be an economical and exciting reconversion for the 13 converted to electric JS8's that sold so cheaply a couple of years ago.  Especially when one considers that the superiorly powerful power plants that came in the later model Sans Permis cars can be had quite cheaply.  I've seen them advertised for just a couple hundred pounds.  Probably because the cars that they came in would be worth so little compared to the cost of repair to their delicate bodies in the event of even a minor collision, or visit from the tin worm, and the engines being of such compact nature that many of them can be so easily stowed in a relatively small space.

Plastic wheel arches are also fragile, hence often found to be missing.
I would sure appreciate it if someone  were to offer  repros, or at least allow a mold to be made so that they could be properly cast in glass fiber.  I need a set of four.  Hopefully all four are cast identically, so only one spat would need to be borrowed for service.
Kind of surprised if there isn't any one in a Ligier club somewhere in France who hasn't yet taken up this enterprise, as between the two models that appear  to have utilized them, I believe that there were more than 10,000 cars made.   So probably thousands of spats needed  by now.

I have 4x wings and 2 bumpers for a js6 if that would be any good to you ?.
I know its a bit late but you never know   IF THE 'WINGS" REFERS TO THE NARROW (PLASTIC/ COMPOSITE?) FENDER LINERS THAT ROUND OUT THE WHEEL HOUSINGS A BIT- Yes they would be of interest to me.
Please let me know.
[i]On my way to unload a 40 footer filled with interesting micros and unusuals arriving from your homeland just now.
More than a bit scary as i have spent much of the last week building a ramp to level out the unloading from the meter and a half high perch of the 18 wheeler chassis that the container sits on.[/i]
 Steve

Interesting twin cylinder diesel in the JS6


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ligier-JS6-Interesting-French-F1-manufacturer-micro-car-project/273011034390?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Interesting twin cylinder diesel in the JS6


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ligier-JS6-Interesting-French-F1-manufacturer-micro-car-project/273011034390?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
45
RUMCar Mart / Js6 breaking
« Last Post by Danholmes on December 09, 2020, 07:47:40 PM »
2 in total most parts avaliable apart from engine as these are electric
So rear subframe with motor and gearbox if you fancy a conversion
46
Sales & Auctions / Re: Ligier for Sale
« Last Post by Danholmes on December 09, 2020, 07:33:17 PM »
Seemed nice enough, especially as it was the better looking 4 headlight model instead of the still good looking JS8 that followed it in production.
Sold for 2,240 GBP also seemed fair enough considering the overall condition.
As  the ad said, no structural rust, but I do see the lower door corners have begun to stain through from the devil's worm starting to feed there.
 They are well engineered , but made of very thin metal, so can literally be dented with a vigorous pressing of one's thumb.  So finding one undented is unlikely.
The reason for the thinness of the metal was to try to keep the wieght down, as that pretty, but very large green house comes at the expense of greater wieght.  The measure was but partly successful, as these cars are a bit over wieght for their 49cc engines. 
This produces the irony of well engineered, independently suspended product of a Formula One manufacturer, that was one of the slowest in top speed for the entire Sans Permis class.
I've heard that 20 mph is about all that they are good for.

Pity, all that excellent engineering not being propelled to more worthy limits.
I've often wondered how easy it might be to fit one of the more modern two cylinder 22 h.p. units under the seat and just run the belt from that unit's infinitely variable trans to the existent drive pulley on the JS4 , or JS8, as the case could be.
Steve Fisk- are you reading this?
Could be an economical and exciting reconversion for the 13 converted to electric JS8's that sold so cheaply a couple of years ago.  Especially when one considers that the superiorly powerful power plants that came in the later model Sans Permis cars can be had quite cheaply.  I've seen them advertised for just a couple hundred pounds.  Probably because the cars that they came in would be worth so little compared to the cost of repair to their delicate bodies in the event of even a minor collision, or visit from the tin worm, and the engines being of such compact nature that many of them can be so easily stowed in a relatively small space.

Plastic wheel arches are also fragile, hence often found to be missing.
I would sure appreciate it if someone  were to offer  repros, or at least allow a mold to be made so that they could be properly cast in glass fiber.  I need a set of four.  Hopefully all four are cast identically, so only one spat would need to be borrowed for service.
Kind of surprised if there isn't any one in a Ligier club somewhere in France who hasn't yet taken up this enterprise, as between the two models that appear  to have utilized them, I believe that there were more than 10,000 cars made.   So probably thousands of spats needed  by now.

I have 4x wings and 2 bumpers for a js6 if that would be any good to you ?.
I know its a bit late but you never know
49
Sooo, two years on & where are we? The floor is in, and a suitable tempory seat was installed, care of the legendary Alan Hitchcock, complete with free complementary dalmation hairs....

 And then work slowed. For something like 18 months whilst a rather more derilict Harding Model IV discovered in Guildford commanded my attention sooner rather than later so that it could continiue to remain in existance, such was the sorry state of said Guildford Harding.

 Then in August 2020, attention turned back to Hammond Harding. As has been recounted, 163 CLD was orginally powered by a Villers Mk 31C unit construction  engine. As this engine was utterly four-letter-worded, complete with a  squirrel nest inside it, I then half fitted a Villers Mk 26c  engine from a 1954 Tippen Coventry invalid carriage scrapped in the  '70s.  Now, after a ponderance on my limitations on being able to  rebuild knackered old engines and the  costs of doing same, plus the fact that the seperate Albion gearbox is  steadfastly refusing to fit in the remaining space where orginaly 163  CLD had the said unit-construction engine, it was a toss-up between 163 CLD standing idle for yet more years with an old engine of unknown condition, or up & working within days with something else...

Thus, after a tour round varius modern engines I happened upon this 'ere brand new 98cc "Villers" G152...  It may "only" be a chinese clone of a Honda G100 engine, but it's still playing the game as far as I'm concerned.  Anyway, said engine arrived brand-new-in-the-box ready for the August bank holiday weekend & the  weekend was spent working out to bodge it into place using the original  unmolested engine mounts. I've said it before & I'll say it again,  in the doing up of old crap; "Dexion & Dulux Works Wonders".

 Of course life is never easy and it was then discovered that the axle sprocket and 5/8" centrifugal clutch (neatly doing away with the  need to mess about with a gearbox that was never up to much even when  new)'s sprocket did not match. No real question of changing the clutch sprocket as said clutch can only be sourced to fit 420 chain whereas the axle sprocket seems to use some sort of chain pitch no longer known to man nor beast. So change the rear sprocket I hear everyone yell. Again, not so simple, for Harding built their machines with sprocket welded directly to the axle & then both chassis rails wilded direct to the axle tube, trapping said sprocket for all time.

 So, how to get round this? Many hours browsing 420 sprockets brought me to split-sprockests as used in some go-karts, split in the fact that they come in two halves, to be bolted onto a kind of cradle to keep the halves alined. Ah, perfect! So such a sprocket duely wings it way to here as I tap away on these keys.  In the springtime, when the weather lets me reaquaint myself with the feeling in my fingers, it's out with the Black & Decker to dril said new sprocket mounting holes in the old fixed sprocket and shift the whole engine over by the said half-inch.

 By hook or by crock Hammond Harding will be running by St Leonard's Day, come what may.... (answers on a postcard as to which 1983 BBC sitcom I referance with that somewhat fractured quiote...)
 
 Meanwhile, a proper seat also slowly takes form...



50
RUMCar News / Re: Rumcar News 147
« Last Post by Jean on December 09, 2020, 10:11:08 AM »
I recieved my copy this afternoon and  skimmed through it. As usual Chris has done a grand job especially as there have hardly any meetings taking place at the moment.  There are some very interesting articles, and I am pleased to see a number have been sent in from abroad.  If you have not already done so, send your subscriptions in to Chris so that you don't miss  out on a very good read. Jean
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