Author Topic: RUMCARS merge  (Read 5113 times)

Bob Purton

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RUMCARS merge
« on: November 11, 2009, 01:33:18 PM »
I notice that up for discussion at AGM of a well known one make microcare club is the topic "Discuss options with respect to evolving the club into a general British microcar club, an entity that is needed and but does not exist in Britain." Strange! What are Micromaniacs, east Anglia, and Bath clubs if not general microcar clubs albeit regionalized? Followed by "Discuss a merger with RUMCARS to mutual benefit"  I just wondered if RUMCARS were aware this was being discussed? Also " possible merge with MOC."   Interesting to note that its not just RUMCARS that have been discussing options as to their future recently.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 01:38:52 PM by Bob Purton »

Chris Thomas

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 02:19:50 PM »
Dear Bob

It sounds like they are struggling and see Rumcar as a successful club, but as Rumcar is not a club there is no way they can merge so end of story.

They could approach Micromaniacs and merge with them, which could make more sense. Which clubs do you belong too?

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Bob Purton

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 05:43:25 PM »
Hi Chris. Yes, my sentiments exactly. I hope they will struggle on as is. What clubs do I belong to? Just two, RUMcars which isnt a club so I dont. And the other is the MEC which I really like.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 08:28:07 PM by Bob Purton »

Big Al

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 11:17:00 AM »
A dialogue was had with officials of RUMcar about this plan as it was not known to the committee of the Club as to how RUMcar was set up. As suggested in the discussion here found it is not a club in the way most other Microcar outfits are organised so it would be like trying to mix oil and water. At that point this option was dropped. However it has been a usefull exorcise to investigate possible common ground between clubs.

The idea was of a much more dynamic nature than bailing out a struggling club.

The idea of a Microcar Club of Great Britain is not new. It would by necessity have to aim high to be a success since it would need to prove itself worthy against the various vested interests, fair or foul, who would see it as some sort of threat. The principles behind it are that it moves the available talent into one organisation that can be far more effective than when it is dispersed between small, some struggling, organisations, especially now we have a reducing pool of enthusiasts to provide the support. It would steer clear of dealing in spares intially, leaving that to the existing organisations that were functioning. If there was a failure it would be able to catch the organisations infrastructure and attempt a resolution or replace the spares system in some way if possible. It could take on the roll of providing a well published newsagent quality magazine with space for clubs and spares suppliers inside. Bare in mind the Internet is beginning to make inroads into the club magazine. It would unify rallies etc. into one cohesive umbrella organisation, preventing clashes and offering help and have considerable impact on the hobby that is Microcars. The prerequisite for being able to do that is a reasonable supply of start up money. That is available in this scenario since the Club was pitched into a very weak position and could at the time have provided the start of the process to achieve the aim. No healthy Micro club would be threatened but the injured and mothballed along with other funds could be rolled up into a significant fund to under write such an organisation meaning these 'dead' funds move back into productive use for enthusiasts who created the deposits in the first place. At its most effective therefore there would be quite a cash injection for more new spares to be made by the appropriate clubs who would have the benefit of some of their work load being reduced so as to concentrate on their marque spares and activity. I think such a world would be brilliant. However the chances of it happening look slim as the will would seem not to be there.

Meanwhile the committee have concentrated on its own problems, re evaluated the situation in the light of information gathered, including feedback from members to present at AGM, and moved forward in setting up the club in a slightly different way. The members responsibility in this situation is to represent their concerns to the committee at AGM rather than create a discussion that can have little influence on the seat of debate at that time. It seems to have aroused little interest which is perhaps because the real thrust of the debate was not really exposed but rather an effect of it. Still as committee members we are governed by the remit of service and AGM so soon the opportunity will be missed for this Club to be the initiators of a grand scheme since the Club is re asserting itself in its own area of expertise.  This will however only benefit a small group of enthusiasts rather than most of them. We always knew this was possible but as befits our heritage we look outside the box for answers rather than sticking with traditions and old thinking.  I think that is where the idea of a single Microcar Club of GB lies, stuck in the mud of old thinking and eventually when it happens or is required by default it will be to late. An opportunity missed in my opinion and a reason to slowly transfer interest to areas that offer vibrant activity since they are unified in what they are doing beyond the issue of values of the Microcars against use.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Big Al

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 09:13:55 AM »
Apologies - I realize after a chum told me I had actually not phrased the part about general discussions of the topic/club members responsibilities very well. It reads as a rather strong put down which is really not what I meant it to. My point was that to have an effect comments need to be fed into the body taking the decision or they fail to be taken into account.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 10:28:36 AM »
It sounds like the way ahead to me but dismantling the current system would not be easy, with the smaller clubs, mags, etc, the longstanding officials are used to getting there own way. Personally I wouild love to see a glossy microcar mag covering all the makes. I guess it could be achieved without any mergers or dissolution of any current clubs/mags as an entirely new entity but it would have to be funded by someone to start with.

Big Al

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 11:17:44 AM »
Exactly the issue.

Now if you had £10k to start with and publishing/writing talent you have the basis of a workable entity. This exists now but might become unavailable.

If the publication and media were released to great impact, and then effect, that would change the landscape we are active in. I think there is about another £6k locked in inactive Club accounts and if the National Rally thing came on board (giving a total fund greater than all but one club I suspect and those in that organisation will in all probability end up involved in the whole new one) with a protected fund for the National and another fund to aid other events to be funded on a payback and %/gift scheme. We would find the events becoming somewhat more coordinated and supported by a strong media presence. This would weed out the less popular events which might be painful. With struggling clubs it might then become worth their obtaining a space in this major Microcar Magazine to expose their favoured activity/area/marque. It is here that the idea impinges on RUMcar. We have created a unified market for advertising and selling cars and parts and perhaps avoid the pitfalls of eBay etc. and avoid costly magazine adverts in various classic mags where only a wealthy person can gain blanket coverage now.  From here it is simple to see that cars uncatered for or with failing spares service could dial into this system - if the project works gaining profit this can be used as set up money made available from the umbrella organisation to finance parts new or in failed services. Even the stronger clubs could take advantage with an ability to place their spares service on view to more people and gain in membership. So rather than fear, in general the effect is good for all. The losers would be those who enjoy the power of controlling a fiefdom as this would be eroded. I think that is a good thing as I am aware I am falling into this trap myself and I can see where it can lead and I do not want to be that person.

Given the set up and success the issue is then how to organise the thing so it remains the responsible organisation that is needed rather than becoming a monster that someone can wield.

However the vested interests have been remarkably quiet and no debate has occurred as the idea has been sat on or ignored by the apathetic. One only has to look to America to see what a vibrant general club can achieve. Years ago America was a Microcar desert, now it is the centre of the universe. As usual the Brits watch their preeminence slip away, do nothing about it and wonder why the good days have gone. It is not difficult to work it out really is it? A clue, our foreign policy that built an empire was divide and conquer everyone else while we united and took the pickings. Where is it all those rare cars are going again? I do not see the organisation as a an if. It is a must if people are serious in having microcars as a viable active hobby in the future in Britain or their will be a few hermits sat in garages full of weird vehicles while everyone else ignores them as sad b@*@*@ds.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Jean

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 06:52:41 PM »
I am very interested to read this discussion , such as it is at the moment.  I for one would like to see our hobby preserved for years to come, and in recent years have been very conscious of the need to find willing people to carry it forward when I can no longer do so.  The Hammond Collection is a family thing which my son and grandsons at the moment seem set to preserve when I am no longer around but  none of them are passionate enough to carry on the Register of Unusual Microcars although I am well supported by Alaistair Lauchland and Tony Marshall.  The Hammond Collection is also well supported to by a group of 'Friends of the Collecxtion' several of whom contirbute to this Forum and I would hope they will continue to support Andrew in the years to come.  My only concern is that any future merges are well thought through and soundly based with the needs of the enthusiast in mind and not financial gain.  Jean
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Bob Purton

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 10:11:31 PM »
Dont worry Jean, the merge subject was just something that was mentioned and as was pointed out earlier in this thread Rumcars is not a club so there is nothing to merge with. It serves its purpose well as a register. As you said, the Hammond collection is a private affair but we rumsters very much enjoy supporting it. The national microcar magazine idea is what interests me and I'm just wondering if in the future RCN may evolve into just that. Its already a fine publication covering the unusual but could it expand to cover all microcars and perhaps be supported and even funded by all the one make clubs?  Its just a long range thought.

Jean

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 10:15:02 AM »
The only thing I worry about is who will continue to keep all aspects of the Register going when I can no longer do so.  We have someone to keep recording the cars and all that entails but I also do the accounts for RUMCARS and keep the archives - no body has volunteered to take either of those jobs over.  Also we still need someone to help Jim Janecek so that we may have a more vibrant web site.  The Forum is great but the rest is a bit 'stale'. So you 'Rumsters' cannot be complacent these jobs will not do themselves!, I have done them allon my own for the majority of the last 30years! so I think its time to handover some more of the responsibilty for the next 30 years!!!  Jean
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Big Al

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 09:38:52 AM »
A rather worrying silence to that plea for someone to provide continuity to the core of RUMcar there.

This is the problem that looms for many organisations with the change in what owners do with their cars and their reasons for owning them. RUMcar really harks back to a world prior to clubs as it is more of a repository of information for differing self help systems. This is what happened prior to clubs which could form where there were enough cars to make it work. Happy times as I was a newbie when all this happened. If you have one of three Wigglesworth Rats made however you really need to talk not only to the other two owners but people who use the same engine and so forth. This is important stuff and I have always supported the idea. The archives are very important where ever they are kept. My reservation with the registration of cars is another matter not part of this topic but can be explored on another thread, if you wish, as it is a separate issue and we need to be safeguarding what Jean is talking about with clarity of thought. This continuity is an important discussion and I would expect quite a bit of feedback from those who have been long time associated with the organisation.

I can only generalise as I am not an insider on this. I can think of at least one younger than average person who is not part of RUMcar, as far as I know, who would make an excellent job of doing the archive, accounts etc. He has a track record and is beyond any question of honesty. No idea if he would do it. No ideas on a potential webster I am afraid. However I would expect that there would be more ease if the new incumbent was from within the supporters group and the repository was to remain with the Hammond Collection. As usual with tasks the 'membership' for want of a better word ducks when a replacement is needed. Now sounds like a good time to act as Jean is available to apply her wisdom to a transfer and hopefully long to do so. I think your bluff has been called here and silence is not the correct answer.

------

Looking at the relationship of my (as oppose to any other person, I do not claim original thought on this concept) idea of a National Microcar Club and RUM. I think the glossy magazine part of the idea can really only be a permanent success with the help of RUM since a good proportion of the talented writers contribute or produce the RUMnews. Both content and skills would be really needed for best results. Like I say, that impinges on RUM directly.
Likewise as Bob suggests RUMnews could grow itself to take the same ground I envisaged for a new organisation. However that means cash and RUMcar have historically not looked to be a business. I fear to be a success in the ultimate version of the magazine idea it has to be a business format or it will be unable to control the volumes of money properly. I can see folk being unhappy with that and the previous idea. It would need to be set up carefully to, as Jean suggests, keep things open and accessable. Money making is not what this is about but providing the best support and environment for the cars and their owners.

The spin off from some advance in the RUMnews would be to follow the MEC pattern where the on line entity is now feeding the newsletter while building up its database (currently not as active as it should be as we are fully occupied sorting out all the other issues within the Club). This takes several motivated folks with certain skills to do and you have to remember we had a broken system. RUMcar is not broken so does not need fixing so such an advance would need to be agreed by those doing the work as not everyone wants to be hi-tech. It would be silly to go hi-tech only to loose the skill and knowledge that made the thing special.
So some changes could resolve the website issue by default otherwise a brain is needed, see above dots for that answer.

So two subjects to debate really. I make no claim to be right. What think you?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: RUMCARS merge
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 10:47:04 AM »
I think some progress could be achieved one step at a time. I have already proposed that RCN expand to include articles about all microcars, not just the odd ball ones. In fact its focus in the past on too much grunge and things that can barely be described as"cars" has put the main stream microfolk off from subscribing, I have on many occasions ask friends if they take RCN and the reply is , "I'm not interested forklift trucks and invalid carriages!" Fortunately Tony has started to get the message and appears to have dropped coverage of tractors and alike. With regard to IC's Stuart has his own publication now which is excellent by all accounts if you like that sort of thing. I never suggested at any time that Stuart withdraw completely from RCN, I always envisioned him having a page but I was peeved some time back when we were getting about six pages on the things [not all by Stuart] . I feel now is the time to branch out and cover mainstream microcars ,perhaps renaming to MICROCAR WORLD and that would surely increase the readership.

About helping Jean out with the archives and accounts,  there will many people in the same position as myself , interested but struggling to run a business, pay the mortgage and hold the family home together along with other commitments but surely there must be some retired members out there with time on there hands?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 10:51:24 AM by Bob Purton »