ZAP! electric three-wheeler

[burford57]

Hi Folks

Seen this?  An American electric three-wheeler with four seats and four doors.  Batteries need "conditioning"
which I take to mean replacing, a potentially expensive exercise.  Plus the UK voltage is 230, US is 110 so
it must have been modified for UK charging.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140389351139&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:GB:1123

Regards
Nick D.

[Jim Janecek]

the most valuable part of that vehicle are the batteries which need replacing.

contrary to the description there are not "lots of them in the states" so don't let that sway you.

[Big Al]

The implication is with a big baby you can recondition the batteries. How does that work?
Seriously though this flashes up the whole problem with electric cars. Batteries, a known green item to produce from the raw.........!, tend to fail, if not cycled get memories etc etc. The things never go as far as they should and I do not see them as replacement transportation as they are presented at the moment. Urban scalextric I can see working with battery back up for doing the last few miles off the strip. However that does not resolve rural transport.

I have 24 volts worth of Ni-cade batteries, ex Railway air conditioning unit back up, needing a home to a sensible offer. I bought them for a home built electric generation system but the windmill I wanted to build was not allowed and the prefered replacement, traditional design, is not effcient enough and far to expensive to warrent the investment. So much for being green.

[Bob Purton]

Are they not Chinese? I know it sounds like the batteries have had it on this and they may well have but as a G-wiz owner and forum reader one cannot assume this automatically.
Many a Wizzer suffers from low battery range due to short regular journey use. There is a procedure for "reconditioning" the battery pack and very often the full range can be restored. Its basically a series of charges, discharges, battery equalizations in a certain order. One owner recently increased his car range from about two miles to twentyfive through this "reconditioning".
I know as micropetrol heads we easily jump to the conclusion that the seller is taking the Micky but this is battery vehicle jargon.    

[Big Al]

Used to have to do this with stubborn donkeys. Nothing changes really does it, save the donkey is genuinely green transport though the exhaust might prove contentious at MOT?

[Bob Purton]

Ah yes but the gas from the donkey could be bottled and used to power a vehicle
I do agree , electric cars are not poised to take over the ice car quite yet and are certainly not as green as people make out but they can be used to good effect as a city car, they are very reliable, they always start up on cold winter mornings and remember , Britain has for decades run the largest fleet of electric vehicles in the world, milk floats and before all the jokes start when was the last time you saw one broken down at the side of the road? Electric cars are like any tool , use it correctly for the right purpose and it gets the job done. Me and the Mrs have for many years run a second small car for local use and I can honestly say that getting the G-wiz was our best move yet. I would match it against your donkey!
I think that in the long term EV's will become redundant by a newer and more efficient power source because as you say the range will always be its downfall, the fuel cell is on its way but in the meantime we are getting 40 miles for £1.40 and not paying any road tax.

[Big Al]

If only there was an employer at the end of the trip which you could charge up at while you worked. Deep joy. Mind you if you perhaps there is an electric powered Donkey after the various IC powered Elephants and Camels. I just hate to think where the charging socket might be located!
If I was in an urban area I would seriously consider an electric car but out here it would be much more of a lifestyle choice. If used regularly and correctly then the battery problems really are lifespan. Not sure what that is but it is quantifiable and you can estimate your expenditure. The problems come if you do not use the vehicle or use it in the wrong way. All these alternative ideas/products are interesting and it is good that some of the better ones get used as experience counts for a lot.

[Bob Purton]

Yes, I think the G-wiz has been successful for a number of reasons, it was a reply to the congestion charge, it has a good back up from its distributor and to some extent it can be maintained by yourself if you are interested enough. There is a socket in the car that you can plug your laptop into and use a software program to see exactly whats happening inside your batteries. The real nutters have a small LED screen stuck on the dashboard and ogle at there battery analysis whilst they are driving! Mechanically and finish wise its not wonderful but the electrical side of things is well sorted. Built in Bangalore but designed in California. There are charge points in central London , in car parks and are at many places of work. Many commuters use up a large part of the range on the way in , recharge at work to get back home. Every time I go into London I see loads of them. We leave our car plugged in all the time when not in use, this is advised to get maximum battery life. The intelligent charger tops up the bats for 15 minutes each day and so far a have not noticed a significant rise in the electricity bill! The down side is that when you eventually do need a new battery pack [3 to 4 years] they are over a grand to buy. You have to view it as buying your fuel up front.

[marcus]

On a Science Museum blog page it says that Jaguar are working on a jet powered car. Not like the old Rover Jet 1, which had problems accelerating and decelerating its turbine, this will be a small turbine driving a generator. I commented on the site that this also offers the possibilty of a heater, for winter commuting.

[Bob Purton]

That sounds interesting Marcus. What fuel powers the jet turbine though? If this is the future and it runs on petrol the Arabs will still have us over a barrel! [literaly]. I should think that a jet powered car would have more that a heater, you could no doubt cook your dinner on the way home from work! Just for the record electric cars do have heaters and you dont have to wait for them to warm up either.

[Chris Thomas]

Dear Bob and Marcus

You may be interested to know that the THINK electric car is just about to go on sale again. They are being made in Finland and the first cars will all be left hand drive for the scandinavian market.

The company that has productionised the car and the production line, also worked on the Tesslar electric sports car and are a british company based in Norfolk (Not Lotus).

While Finland is not the obvious place to build an electric car, they make exceedingly good electric mobile phones that work.

Watch this space.

Chris Thomas

[marcus]

I had heard that some electric cars do have heaters, but on a cold, dark, rainy winter evening surely your range is bound to be drastically reduced by heater, lights and windscreen wipers, as well as the effect of coldness on your batteries.
I have no idea of the fuel for the Jag Jet, but if they have any sense it will be alcohol-based to safeguard ourselves from being had over a barrel.
Interesting to hear about the Think, there used to be one near me.
As for Finnish mobiles, I once sat next to a Finn on a plane back from Dallas Texas. He worked for Nokia, and had been there for a brainstorming design session, and was a really nice fellow, as he was also a drummer! Soon afterwards I had to get a new phone and decided to go for a Nokia and had 5 perfect years with it already, far better and easier to use than my previous ones, and it can still remain on stand-by for about 2 weeks!

[Chris Thomas]

Dear Marcus

I was on a training course with a Finnish guy who trained operators on the machinery that loggers use to harvest trees. On the same course was a manager from BT who was being a little flashy with his latest mobile phone. At the time people were concerned about the health affect of micro waves and mobile phones on childrens brains.

To slow the BT manager down somebody asked the Finnish guy his opinion about mobile phones health risks, seeing as Nokia was the biggest phone producer at the time. He said in broken english " We all use mobile phones in Finnland as the state phone company is too expensive because Finnland is a big country and there are not many Finnish people. We use our phones a lot and if there was going to be a health problem with using mobile phones then Finnish people would be affected first. Then again Finnish people do have frozen brains"

I see from th internet that the Porche Boxter and Cayenne are also made in Finnland as was the Vauxhall Calibra. I wonder if they were all made in the same factory?

Chris Thomas

[marcus]

I had no idea Porsches were made outside Germany!
That news about The Jag Jet research does interest me a lot, because model jet engines are becoming great little performers. Electric propulsion is a brilliant way to propel road vehicles: electric motors can provide speed, power, control, and gear free operation. Generating that electricity cleanly, economically and compactly is the only limitation at present. Batteries are problematic unless your daily requirements suit their capabilities, and I think it is great that Bob has the right "need and use" for a battery electric car. I think lots of other people do too, but choose not to.
The 3 fundamental issues a jet/electric vehicle will have to address are sustainable fuel, how to control the heat and exhaust energy safely and effectively, and how to reduce the shrieking noise.
Charles Parsons invented the Steam Turbine for boats in the 19th century, Frank Whittle invented the Gas Turbine for aircraft in the 20th century. Cars have all sorts of extra issues to address, like not frazzling any pedestrian who crosses a road behind a stationary jet car! Perhaps in the 21st century turbine technology may eventually become a practical reality for cars.

[Bob Purton]

Of coarse the more things you are running the shorter the range will be but not everyone requires there EV's maximum range on every trip so its still better to have a heater than not. I don't know about other EV's but the Wiz heater is set to just blow mildly warmed air to minimize power consumption, I just use it to keep the screen clear. You can order your Wiz complete with heated seats and aircon if you want but even I think thats daft for a car of this type!

Glad the Think is coming back. Its such a waste when manufacturers develop a good vehicle and then just shelve it. However it will be no use to me as my wife can only drive quadricycle class.  Have a look at "Mycar" I really like the look of this EV.

http://www.evstores.co.uk/
Available today in London.