Author Topic: The Daffodil Dash  (Read 13849 times)

Ollie

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2010, 01:05:19 PM »
Ollie, you are clearly a man after my own heart!  Never could understand all this overrestored nonsense, if a machine had nice shiny new paint, perfect chrome etc etc when new how can a thing be overrestored! The exception would be straying from original spec. You did a cracking job! In my experience those who shout "overrestored" usually cant restore!
Totally agree with you Bob  ;)

Big Al

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2010, 11:54:42 AM »
  What is over restored? For me it is going beyond the original finish the car was sold with. Quite a few Isettas and Messerschmitts therefore fall into that category. However a car carrying loads of original or faithfully replicated extras is a case of taste not over restoration. Do you like bling, if you like?
  Is it bad to over restore a car? No, not really, as that is what the owner wanted and hopefully he is happy with it. The only problem is when those cars become the yardstick by which the rest are judged since we loose originality to the altar of shiny. Case in point - where are the many 1955-57 standard Messerschmitts? Your not telling me they did not sell at least as many as the Export (De Lux). Nope, most have been 'over restored' into a model FMR never made. Neither standard nor Export (De Lux) and often not actually with correctly dated instrumentation. Oh dear!
  Original Messerschmitts are actually very thin on the ground and the majority are wrong thanks to 'over restoration' and its effects combined with a lack of information from perhaps the car with the strongest Club backing other than Bonds. Yet Bond Owners seem to be far more aware of their car's original features for all the lower financial status. Or maybe that is the problem with over restoration, it is actually about money.
  Unfortunately some in the MOC have forgotten why Mick Leeson's 7000 mile KR200 was purchased by that club. It was to serve as a resource for those restoring a late type Messerschmitt to study so they could get their restoration correct. It was a purchase for the future members benefit. It was not bought to make money, as I understand it. If that is what is to be the future then I humbly submit that the institution has gone from a club to a business. It would be particularly damaging if the club sold the car abroad. I think the topic has created some serious internal debate within the MOC and so it should. The result could be very important to all Schmitters and point the direction in which the cars are headed. Selling it points in a direction I do not want to go. However it is probably realistic! Personally I think low milage and original cars are the most valuable and that is why I have collected them over restored pretty cars. What to do if I want to preserve their status as Mick did. Nigh on impossible actually since museums, clubs and all seem to be at the whim of mind or trustee policy changes. Perhaps these cars are better in a shed where some individual loves them than at the whim of democratic based vandalism. Please accept this is not an attack on the MOC but an illustrations of the problems associated with how to keep original vehicles. They are terribly important to the enthusiast.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

marcus

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2010, 01:41:13 PM »
I have seen various makes and types of classic car which I consider to be over-restored, and to me it is partly when they look better than they ever did when brand new and in a Showroom. Many micros of the 50s and 60s were designed to be affordable and were not given Rolls Royce standards of construction and finishing.
Adding wheel trims and embellishments was often done by dealers and first owners, just as nowadays, and although these may not have been manufacturer's standard fittings they re removable, and reflect peoples' way of personalising their car, which is great.
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Ollie

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 04:25:28 PM »
I fully understand what you guys are saying but i have found it very difficult on the monkey bikes and my kr200 that i am restoring or restored to try and achieve the original finish.I found with my kr200 i have 99% of the genuine parts but they have surface rust and pitting so to try and remove that you have to polish them out or repaint .once that is done you have lost that original dull finish when it came out the factory moulds etc so therefore that finish is wrong.I'm having my car finished in 2 pac paint which as we know is not original but i'm going to be showing my car at shows and want it to look good.It would be nice to find these machines that were bought brand new and rapped in cotton wool and never used and say i have an unrestored(not over restored) car but the odds of that are very very slim as we all know.So how far do you go before you say its not been over restored?
I could of built my kr200 back up and not touch any of the ally,chrome or painted bits and it would of looked like i had just dragged it out the breakers yard..not the look i'm after  :)
I will say that i am using many of the genuine parts and they have just been cleaned up but for a lot of old 50's ,60's cars that are being restored this is not possible as the parts are all rotten through or damaged.

marcus

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2010, 07:02:12 PM »
With you Ollie! I think if a car is ultra-rare, like only 3 left in the world then it is crucial that their identity and originality is maintained, but cars like Bonds and the "Big 3" Bubble Cars have survived in sufficient numbers that I have no problem with minor improvements and additions which are not genuine. A few people have commented that my Trojan is not "fully as original", so I point out that about 50% of the original metal structure had rusted away! 2 pack may be "wrong" but I see no problem with making use of better materials. Anyway, the point is always that whoever owns the car has a right to make any decisions!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Big Al

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2010, 07:36:57 PM »
I fully understand what you guys are saying but i have found it very difficult on the monkey bikes and my kr200 that i am restoring or restored to try and achieve the original finish.I found with my kr200 i have 99% of the genuine parts but they have surface rust and pitting so to try and remove that you have to polish them out or repaint .once that is done you have lost that original dull finish when it came out the factory moulds etc so therefore that finish is wrong.I'm having my car finished in 2 pac paint which as we know is not original but i'm going to be showing my car at shows and want it to look good.It would be nice to find these machines that were bought brand new and rapped in cotton wool and never used and say i have an unrestored(not over restored) car but the odds of that are very very slim as we all know.So how far do you go before you say its not been over restored?
I could of built my kr200 back up and not touch any of the ally,chrome or painted bits and it would of looked like i had just dragged it out the breakers yard..not the look i'm after  :)
I will say that i am using many of the genuine parts and they have just been cleaned up but for a lot of old 50's ,60's cars that are being restored this is not possible as the parts are all rotten through or damaged.

The problem expressed by a restorer encapsulates the dilema. I could say be like me and wait for an original car to come up, they are out there, however that is a specialist area really, more so than restoring cars from a mess, itself unusual these days! Where the wheels really fall of is cheque book restorations with no real referance to data available. The big budget tends to lead to the need to prove it is the dogs whatsits. Very often it is great to look at but something got lost in the process and I really steer very clear of such cars as they are very often a bit of a nightmare. Marcus is right it is the owners business and the best defence is to learn about the cars so at least you know what you are looking at even if no one else does.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

blob

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2010, 10:47:44 AM »
Just wondering if Perry has a twin or if indeed it was himself, trying to negotiate a monkey bike through the cross roads of Mare St and Hackney Rd on Saturday afternoon?

P50

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2010, 04:33:54 PM »
That was me and my mate Lee. We went for a blat around Londinistan.

Well spotted!!  mine's the noisy one.. His is a chrome ltd edition.   

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Bob Purton

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2010, 05:03:33 PM »
Fancy bringing them out this Saturday? We are doing the "nasty run" [only named such because it takes in the village called Nasty!] Hertfordshire country villages, pub lunch! Go on you know you want to! Last time participents included a Corgi and other minibikes. Ask me for details if interested.

blob

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2010, 07:36:47 PM »
Quote
That was me and my mate Lee.

Ahh I knew it! I was at the traffic lights when you came clattering past, poor old Lee must be hoarse by now having to shout over the racket! However great bikes and it looked like you were having fun. ;D
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 07:46:25 PM by blob »

P50

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2010, 08:49:35 PM »
Fancy bringing them out this Saturday? We are doing the "nasty run" [only named such because it takes in the village called Nasty!] Hertfordshire country villages, pub lunch! Go on you know you want to! Last time participents included a Corgi and other minibikes. Ask me for details if interested.


Can I have some more details?  May attend. Where, when, route, starting point, etc etc...
"Men of worth act like men of worth, and men of genius, who produce
things beautiful and excellent, shine forth far better when other people
praise them than when they boast so confidently of their own achievements."
-Benvenuto Cellini

Bob Purton

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Re: The Daffodil Dash
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2010, 09:24:18 PM »
Hi Perry. I have sent you an email with a link. I warn you, its infectious!!