Author Topic: HMV Freeway  (Read 14543 times)

mharrell

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HMV Freeway
« on: June 25, 2010, 05:17:17 PM »
Yesterday I traded my MGB for a yellow 1981 HMV Freeway so I suppose I should send the appropriate paperwork to the Register.



Runs great; brakes need work.
197? Lyman Electric Quad (two), 1978 KV Mini 1, 1980 KV Mini 1, 1981 HMV Freeway

marcus

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2010, 05:29:10 PM »
Looks good in yellow, nice condition too.
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Jean

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2010, 06:46:09 PM »
Yes, please put on the Register it will be a first and an article to go with it for Tony Marshall would  be nice too.  Jean
Jean
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Big Al

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 10:38:34 AM »
Saab, nice! Sorry where was the Freeway. Doh!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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mharrell

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 09:28:01 PM »
Saab, nice! Sorry where was the Freeway. Doh!

The HMV is between the KV and the SAAB, just in front of the, um, other KV and other SAAB.  It's next to the MG....
197? Lyman Electric Quad (two), 1978 KV Mini 1, 1980 KV Mini 1, 1981 HMV Freeway

Big Al

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 10:03:40 AM »
You realise in Britain the HMV would mean Her Majestie's Vehicle Freeway. Just right for a monarch and Corgi dog with enough room for wrist action waving. A whole new thing unless you want to be an old queen! I will shut up now.

Are there any Freeways in Europe?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

marcus

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 10:05:57 AM »
NO, we have Motorways, Autobahnen, Autoroutes etc. Boom Boom, Ithangyou!
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Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

steven mandell

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 01:40:20 PM »
I've had one since 1992.  Never thought to register it until now.
All of them except for mine exhibit approx 1/4 inch of toe in per one inch of spring compression.  To be more exact- that figure is different for the right and left front wheels due to the off center location of the output ends of the ball and trunnion steering mechanism.  This necessitates unequal length steering controll arms that unfortunately also serve as the upper links to the suspension.  Therefore it is impossible with the original set up to get symmetrical changes in toe in (there shouldn't have been any in the first place), and camber with compression of the front suspension under usual driving conditions.

This also makes for a very exciting driving experience especially upon hitting bumps, and really dangerous if hitting a one wheel bump, or a diagonal elevation such as a railroad track or bridge break on a freeway at speed as the car will turn first one way and then quickly the other.  This rapid one -two, right - left punch seems like it wants to flip the car.  This is because whilst simultaneous imposition of significant two wheeled toe in can feel like it wants to trip the car as it becomes slightly asymmetrically pigeon toed- one wheeled toe in is the same as a steering input directing your vehicle's path towards the opposite side of the road.   

I could go on and on because as far as I know I am the only one who has ever figured out all the problem's of this car's suspension and steering.  I actually built a full scale working model of it off the car to figure out what was happening and why.  I also believe that I am the only one to ever engineer a proper solution to all the problems I discovered.

I engineered a mini rack and pinion unit with a centered output and 20 and a half inch long upper radius rods/steering arms to connect to an input point on the hubs behind (vs. ahead as on the original cars) of the front axle line. This had the effect of reducing toe in to 12 thousandths of an inch during one inch of spring compression - which is well within race car standards.  I also equalized and drastically increased the castor to approx 8 degrees for more self centering effect.  I also released the front springs from their highly compresed state for a smoother ride, as well as replaced all the rod ends and hardware store quality strap and ball pivot bushings with customized "alumibronze" bushings.  I also engineered the central transverse pivot rod that slips so sloppily within its 3 foot long grease filled tube that looks like a torsion bar ac cross the front end to be controlled by needle bearings.
The only thing original to the steering is the steering wheel, yet I am proud to be able to say that I managed to get the crazy suspension to actually work the way the designer had hoped for without sacrificing the weirdness of his design.  If you didn't peer around under the dash and front footwells you would never even see any of the modifications.

I also took out a tremendous source of lateral sway by creating custom made tunable bushings without the unneeded and unwanted lateral compliance of the originals.  Switching from the 3 stock 155 sr 12 inch tires to a rear mag wheel with a  Pirelli 175/50 x 13 " tire also helped as it has the stiffest sidewall available, and that is another major contributor to the destabilizing side sway that is endemic to three wheelers.  I put Yokohama 165/70 HR x 10" in the front to lower the center of gravity, allow for the increase the tire clearance required to ac comadate the greater castor angle causing the original tires to rub the inner fenders upon nearing full lock, and yes even slightly improve the aero- or in this case should I say arrow dynamics of the pointy nose beast.
Good luck on the brakes.  They are rather ineffectual.  At least they are conventional so not too hard to work on.
Don't forget to center your brake drums each time you take off the wheels by rotating the wheels slowly whilst tightening the lugs .   

Bob Purton

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 06:36:07 PM »
After reading all that the Messerschmitt doesnt sound so bad after all!

mharrell

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2010, 07:21:30 PM »
Good luck on the brakes.

Thanks?  I'm certainly looking forward to putting a few miles on it now....
197? Lyman Electric Quad (two), 1978 KV Mini 1, 1980 KV Mini 1, 1981 HMV Freeway

steven mandell

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2010, 08:12:38 PM »
Better to be prepared for what you are likely to encounter than surprised by it.
Qiucker fixes that could have some of the effect of counter manding some of the more serious flaws include installing a pretty stiff steering stabilizer to nullify some of the the immediacy of the effect of the assymetrical bump steer, and running tire pressures of 18 psi front and 36 psi on the rear.   Lower pressure on the front will help you deal with the overly stiff springing on this end that was undoubetedly added to increase overall roll resistance of the vehicle.  The extra presure in the back tire will stiifen the sidewall and hence increase resistance to lateral sway where you have no other geometrical source of increasing roll resistance.  Try pushing laterally (cross wise) at the rear high point of the car and you will actually see the sidewalls bulge right then left as the car sways.  The same thing happens while you are driving.
Oh yeah, almost forgot- the rear swing arm is way too short and way too softly sprung, especialy when compared to the very stiff and quite often seized up front springing as the transverse rod on the 3 foot tube can get rusted in place.
Try pushing down on the front end, then the rear end to see what I'm talking about here.  The front end is unforgiving and the rear so soft and swing arm so short that you can actually see the effect of the wheel base  changing as the rear bobs eccessively up and down.  I had a girlfriend follow me on the freeway while I was in my Freeway before I spent a year and a half re engineering it.  She said it "hops up and down and a little side to side, just like a bunny".

Adjustable and stiffer rear shocks and springs from a motorcycle with a reduced overall length will bring the swing arm closer to a horizontal nuetral orientation when the vehicle is fully loaded.  This along with a change to the through bolt style of rubber isolators for the front rubber bushings that suspend both the engine and the swing arm, will go a long way towards eliminating the "bunny hop".

Or you could just look at it and stay below whatever speed rightly scares you and leave it at that.
I obviously felt inordinately compelled to make the Freeway able to be at least some what capble of being driven on the freeways without literally taking my life out of my own hands- hence my year and a half of creative diversion. 

marcus

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2010, 08:25:31 PM »
Excellent stuff Steven, that's a lot to take in! With that knowledge and experience you could design and make your own new micro car/3 wheeler, so how about it?! ::)
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

steven mandell

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 08:39:54 PM »
Very insightfull of you.
About 15 years ago i was serious enough about it to design a futuristic and very aerodynamically efficient three wheeler in 1/12 scale after working out all the particulars of ergonomics and unitary chassis and drivetrain.
It eventually dawned on me that I don't work efficiently enough on such a large scale to be likely to pull this off alone- so I dropped it.
My AZ-1 has the right drivetrain, is plenty competent and thrilling to drive, but at 1500 lbs does weigh more than twice my target weight.
If I get rich quick and retire/ or get rid of a bout 25 cars it could be possible to continue in this vein.

marcus

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2010, 08:45:08 PM »
Shame you cannot envisage taking on such a project, it sounds like you have the knowledge and skill to come up with something good! Then again, it's one thing to have the knowledge and skill to make something, and another thing entirely to make it economically viable as a product.
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Big Al

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Re: HMV Freeway
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2010, 11:20:35 AM »
NO, we have Motorways, Autobahnen, Autoroutes etc. Boom Boom, Ithangyou!
(I'll get me coat)

What about Urban Freeways, blue sign with a red steering wheel 'innit? Must have been a 70's design, wow man. Can you look urbane driving a Freeway? Can you sprawl and be urbane? Bad news for Freeway, they have been bought out by Paige of France.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs