Author Topic: Peel Engineering again  (Read 5160 times)

Big Al

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Peel Engineering again
« on: September 29, 2010, 03:08:34 PM »
Peel Engineering have themselves in Classic Motor Monthly, incorporating The Autojumbler. I like it anyway. I assume therefore it will appear somewhere on www.classicmotor.co.uk. Not digested the item yet as busy doing a mountain of paperwork chucking family matters out. Found a pic of Uncle Micheal's Jarc. Poor but might see if it reproduces. Perhaps I ought to start making fake Jarcs or would I be making a Jarcarse of myself.

 
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Scootacar_mk1

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Cream Mk1 Scootacar

Stuart Cyphus

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 12:50:51 AM »
 It's not often I'm left stuck for words, but this video did it to me just now!  :o  What can I say, but I love it! I think this has to be the best bit of film I've seen this year. Somewhat worrying I find myself wondering, deep down, if I woud not do exacly the same thing myself if the crowd was vocal enough!!!! Though a head-on with a Rhino might be gong it a bit too far....  I still can't get over that lion tagging the front wheel like that.

Big Al

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 10:07:02 AM »
I notice the Coy's auction description has been modified to dodge the authenticity of the car by Coy's. I believe this is a result of Jean and Mike W-W rather than input from Peel Engineering. This would suggest that PE have not got a preceedable claim to use the name or the will to persue protecting that which they bought. So as you were on the Peel front, no need to fret other than more fakes being created into the market. We await the publishing of the auction result to see what the Peel achieved. I managed to save one punter from doing his money on it. He bought a Schmitt instead and is considering the Peel project Root rejected at a price to persuade me to pass it on. He is building up a collection, its all the rage.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

P50

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 11:52:03 AM »
I notice the Coy's auction description has been modified to dodge the authenticity of the car by Coy's. I believe this is a result of Jean and Mike W-W rather than input from Peel Engineering. This would suggest that PE have not got a preceedable claim to use the name or the will to persue protecting that which they bought. So as you were on the Peel front, no need to fret other than more fakes being created into the market. We await the publishing of the auction result to see what the Peel achieved. I managed to save one punter from doing his money on it. He bought a Schmitt instead and is considering the Peel project Root rejected at a price to persuade me to pass it on. He is building up a collection, its all the rage.

http://www.coys.co.uk/fpA205.php?viewitem=A205_109

So what happened?  The auction was yesterday at 3pm.

Coys called it a Peel.  Of which it is not.  They are selling counterfeit goods.

This fake stinks to high heaven.     
"Men of worth act like men of worth, and men of genius, who produce
things beautiful and excellent, shine forth far better when other people
praise them than when they boast so confidently of their own achievements."
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Jim Janecek

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 02:55:59 PM »
I notice the Coy's auction description has been modified to dodge the authenticity of the car by Coy's. I believe this is a result of Jean and Mike W-W rather than input from Peel Engineering.

actually I took the initiative of contacting both Mike W-W and Coy's myself and attaching an article I wrote about the sales "history" of that particular car to put things into context.
Mike had no idea his name was being used to advertise the vehicle in question.
At the time his name was attached to the listing offering a "certificate of authenticity".  He wrote back to say that while he had issued the car a "dating certificate" some time in the past it was not what the seller claims.  Mike was the one that contacted Coy's and asked to see this "certificate" that was being advertised and apparently got them to change the auction listing.
It will not matter for a buyer outside the UK though.

Coy's never responded to me but Mike and I had a nice little back and forth and I learned a bit.

Apparently this "dating certificate" was what was used to register this vehicle as a 1964 model.
Mike says he does this all the time and cannot recall when it was issued or if he dated a wreck (as the seller originally claimed at one point) or if it was a complete vehicle.  He says he will dig into his records to see what -if anything- he has in the way of notes, but he seemed to be completely unaware that replicas were available or at least available to a high standard.


Grant Kearney

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 09:06:01 PM »
The P50 reached £11.5k (plus commission) in auction but did not meet its reserve despite what Coys might claim !.  Now the very interesting parts, after the sale the owner sold it privately for £19K (which on my calculations saved both parties £3500 in commission and fees).  How do I know ?, my local classic car dealer/restorer had two cars in the auction and brought them down on their covered transporter.  He did not believe me that a 'silly child's car' could be worthy of a Coys auction but he would follow up the result and try and make contact with the new owner for me.  Unfortunately all he could find out last night was it did not sell in the auction but did sell later to a foreign dealer which apparently is all too common at these types of high profile events.

Peelpower

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 09:23:48 PM »
Hi Scootacar,

 any futher informations of where the car has been sold to ?

The Mafia wants to know, and, as far i do remember  ;) you are a part of the clan   ???

Jim Janecek

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 10:08:41 PM »
after this car was on eBay twice I was later told that it sold privately with the buyer knowing that it was a replica.
that info appears to have been incorrect as it would seem the original seller was the one selling this at Coy's since the original photos were used and descriptive text seemed very familiar.  (someone correct me if I got that wrong)

£11.5 is not a terrible price for decent replica that is ready to go.  So I would say the bid up price was what the market was for this vehicle.
Sure beats buying one of those electric things from "Peel Engineering UK" for £12.5

Both the seller and the buyer have vested interests in ensuring other parties think that the actual sale price was higher.  Only they know the true sales price.
If it was sold to a foreign "dealer" it may re-appear on the public market again or that dealer may be able to pass it off privately as a real P50 to the uninformed.

P50

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2010, 06:27:51 AM »
The irony is this car is better (i.e. more accurate) than virtually all the remaining bone fide P50's.

Most have wrong bits but this one is very correct.   However I'd happily have the remains of an og body and a genuine chassis plate with little else then this car.  Like a fine painting a copy is virtully worthless compared to the real thing.

Its card is marked and wherever it surfaces it will be known as a cunning rep. Is this dealer aware of the fact?


   
"Men of worth act like men of worth, and men of genius, who produce
things beautiful and excellent, shine forth far better when other people
praise them than when they boast so confidently of their own achievements."
-Benvenuto Cellini

Big Al

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 10:02:39 AM »
  And therein lays the danger of fakes, replicas and dodgy originals. Wash it through a couple of auctions and dealers and you have a 'genuine' car supported by various nefarious bits of paper, some real but worthless, and others of dubious accuracy via various legitimate sources. Now this is a good replica. If it is sold abroad or by the dealer it is going to be much more difficult to avoid further legitimacy and the price paid will see the buyer wanting to protect his investment. Eventually that will come back against the market for Peels and has to undermine confidence as only an expert can tell if the things are real or not.

  Secondly this car undermines the retention of number process we need to put our restored cars on the road. This for the profit of an individual. You cannot beat a car with original documentation and these will be the ones that will be worth the money as the ordinary buyer cannot simply otherwise work out if what he is buying is real or not. In fact it b*****s up the hobby nicely. Sadly the trading now is drifting into the non ethical unlike the earlier days when cars were still available as fresh finds and the values were not so great. I have accepted this as a fact and it colours my interest a good bit and I am glad to not be trading now.

  The interesting thing is that the auction itself only bid up to that figure. This would suggest the word is getting out that buying a Peel is dodgy if it cannot prove what it is. It confirms my belief that a proper 'replica' Peel is worth about £12k, if it is registered as something. Quite what a non original unregistered machine will be worth, therefore, is a matter of debate. I suspect not a great deal as fakes a readily available so quality of build is the issue as is registration. As to a private deal after the event, well who knows. You accept the intelligence on offer without disputing the honesty of the source but can never be sure if there is not a bit of disinformation being put out for broadcaste.

  Well done Jim. Mark that up as a success.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

P50

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Re: Peel Engineering again
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2010, 01:41:45 PM »
Al,

You remind us regularly that a Peel will (possibly?) diminish in value if it cannot be proven that it is a genuine Peel.

This blue car has been executed in such a way that I doubt any will follow. It is accuracte to the n'th degree. I feel this car is simply a blip. You cannot get the parts these days.  Carbs,Engines,Lights,Switches etc are like rocking horse excreta to the layman.

Who is being fooled?  A few choice emails and the facts are there steering you in the right direction. This car has been laundered and does have paperwork but so what? its a rep that's tricked the system.  As time goes on I think you'll find it will be easier to identify a rep.  We have the internet remember and someone is going to put a buyers guide up for Peels etc.   

I think we can say a common garden enthusiast is not going to get into microcars as they are a lot of money these days.  Shame really but there you go. Market forces and all that. 


 
"Men of worth act like men of worth, and men of genius, who produce
things beautiful and excellent, shine forth far better when other people
praise them than when they boast so confidently of their own achievements."
-Benvenuto Cellini