Author Topic: Isetta counter weight  (Read 6707 times)

marcus

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Chris Thomas

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2010, 07:37:18 PM »
Dear Bob

I consider myself quite adept at both metric and Imperial but prefer Metric. I find myself still hanging onto some imperial measurements such as miles per gallon rather than litres per 100 km. Whilst L/100 km may be of more use day to day, I find it too fiddly and MPG more accurate. With road distances all marked in Miles it is also more difficult to think in km. As far as weights, loads, volumes and linear measurements I always use metric, however Imperial based UK clothing sizes I still use, as continental shoe, shirt and trouses sizes are not yet in my brain.

So I would not say I am confused, just not yet fully metricated, but easily able to estimate in both.

How about you?

Chris T

steven mandell

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2010, 07:39:31 PM »
Just when it was starting to seem like it all made sence!  
Now ther is a mere 33 lb weight of generic design that would not allow it to be placed as far laterally or forward.   Both of these vector shifts are necessarry to get the cg closer to the engineer's ideal- the lowest available centerpoint of the greatest source of resistence to roll over- the front "axle."
Perhaps the reduced weight and less ideal location would be less problematic for the Trojan as at least the engine was centrally located.  Have you experienced or heard of this concern form other Trojan owners?
Talk about low brow tech- I think if I had the Tojan and it seemed in need of this type of assistence I would save the money and use some masonary.

Bob Purton

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2010, 08:40:36 PM »
Steven. I think the ebay listing of the weight it gobbledygook! I have never heard of Heinkels using counter weight, with a central engine what would be the point? Its certainly not from an Isetta. Someone has been leading this guy up the garden path! Unless someone know different?

Chris. I'm much the same as yourself using both. For work on antique stuff I'm in imperial as most of the instruments are English. For DIY around the home I use mm these days. If a doctor asks what I weigh I give it to him in Stones!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 09:41:00 PM by Bob Purton »

Big Al

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 08:59:59 AM »
If a doctor asks what I weigh I give it to him in Stones!

Yeah I weigh a Kieth, Mick and half a Charlie! Must start by loosing the Charlie on my diet.

The problem is that many imperial units are very useful in practical application as they equate to bits of body etc. Thus when hand constructing they make far more sense than metric. If you are being scientific the metric system is a lot better. Likewise the standardisation of fasteners in the metric system is far preferable to the myriad of differing types used outside that system, as owning a Berkeley reveals, one reason I do not own one. So we are reluctant to get rid of imperial units as many suit our day to day lives, like a pint of beer, a round metric equivalent does not work. Inches, the turn of a thumb, foot, obvious etc. Why do we need to get rid of them anyway? They are ideal in construction as was because things were done by eye locally. Very often the better for it in fact as what looks right often is not square or exact. The French still use imperial measures in the country, in fact, and they invented and promoted the metric system. Much like driving on the wrong side of the road they claim its better. Like measurements the fact is the countryside took a longer time to adapt than those who pushed the idea through thought. Only law forced the issue. Beyond that which metric system do we use? Centigrade, Kelvin etc.

This battery thing I thought I had answered. There is, now I have looked, ample room for a period battery of larger capacity than standard to be sunk into the floor of the Isetta behind the front wheel arch. It does not get in the way. All that is required is the weights of the various components and to then calculate the moments of them in comparison to the original design to see if it can be matched by moving the other parts listed about. This would take about a day with a slide rule as we are being traditional. Even if it were to not be enough the amount of extra weight added that is useless would be far reduced and the overall weight of the car reduced to better performance and economy. Carrying 60lbs is the same as the terror if it were an airdale or something. In the light of being green and performance added weight is bad news and where modern cars fall down very badly. On a microcar added weight is just not minimalist and a cop out against the tenants of the class.
If this counter balance was a clever bit of design could you buy one to match the weight of the driver to give best performance?No it was moulded into the 'sill' in the hope no one would notice it. Botch up for cash and of a subtly and standard of finish railway engineers could make without help from BMW.

The eBay counterweight. It is SS gold - of sorts. A brick painted gold and marketed as a counter balance. Brilliant. The car version of poodle clipped sheep for Japan.
I have an original Messerschmitt 10 inch wheel conversion here as advertised in the Exchange and Mart that is more useful than that but a really cunning use of available technology. It does work as I have tried it. I love this sort of things.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Jean

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 06:08:08 PM »
Quote
I have never heard of Heinkels using counter weight, with a central engine what would be the point? Its certainly not from an Isetta. Someone has been leading this guy up the garden path! Unless someone know different?
When Edwin bought our German Heinkel way back in the late 70's it was driven up from Brighton to Sidcup by its student owner and he had a weight, which we still have,on the floor on the passenger side .  As you are all well aware I no nothing about technicalities so I will have ask Andrew what he remembers out it.  Jean
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marcus

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2010, 06:14:36 PM »
I never heard of Heinkel, Trojan or any supplier fitting or selling counterweights for H/T cars, but some people probably improvised their own. I rarely drive mine alone, but when I do, I store tools, spares, shopping etc on the left side, but really the balance is pretty good anyway. Mind you, I am not exactly the heaviest person around!
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steven mandell

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2010, 06:22:35 PM »
Jean Thankyou for tipping over Bob's assertion of gobblygook.  In consideration of your disclaimer, I only address the latter two questions to yourself.
Does that mean that if you picked up a passenger you were supposed to slide the weight  closer to the centerline of the car a distance proportionate to the difference between the weight of the driver and that of the passenger biased in the direction of the lighter of the two?
Did the weight just sit there, or was it affixed by some means?
Did it look like the gold brick being auctioned on E bay?

marcus

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2010, 07:20:53 PM »
In about the late 1970s I heard that Bonds (or some of them) had a rod running across the car (under the dashboard?) with a slidable weight. Seems like quite a good idea for a light side-by-side 3 wheeler, as long as you can remove it easily when fully loaded. Tandem seating avoids this issue, but given the choice of being balanced but separate from your partner, or sharing a bench seat is a no-brainer for me!
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steven mandell

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2010, 08:13:16 PM »
Sounds good for establishing equal tippability right and left.
However if one wishes to limit tendency to tip over as effectively as possible-  under dashboard mounting would be considerably higher than the ideal. 
I didn't catch which way you were leaning towards with the tandem vs. bench seat options. 
Don't forget that the extra rearward displacement of a tandem seated passenger places the center of gravity considerably more rearward, and hence away from the only significant source of resistance to roll over- the front springs.

marcus

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2010, 08:19:26 PM »
Bench seat any day of the week! I love 'smitts but nothing beats a bench seat! True about rear tandem passenger: the more weight at the single wheel end the worse the cornering.
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Bob Purton

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2010, 08:42:17 PM »
Sliding weight under the dashboard? More gobbledigook!! I would stake my overdraft on it!!  Some individuals may have come up with these things independantly, when I drove a Hillman Imp I carried a sand bag under the bonnet to improve grip but Huillman did not supply there cars with a sand bag as an optional extra!

marcus

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2010, 08:56:02 PM »
 Reckon so, another urban myth!
A fellow Fabulous Fezhead used to drive his Bond around Maidstone.


Balanced on 2 wheels.
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g-o-g-g-o

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2010, 10:00:29 PM »
Hi All
         Let me solve this puzzle for you - the advert for the gold covered brick - is a FOOT WARMER - I have a similar brick and on the base it has cast into the brick "NAWELL'S PATENT FOOT WARMER" it is painted yellow/gold also - you warmed it up in the oven and then you took it out to your car to keep the passengers feet warm. I can only suppose that the current owner found it under the seat!!!
   The Isetta block of steel was much heavier and placed as far to the left of the car as possible ( The Isetta works at Brighton used to repair Railway Steam trains ) to counter the weight of the driver - you have to remember that people were a lot lighter in the 50's being just after the war - and no Big Mac's to feed them up - that is why the RHD Isetta's were slower than the LHD cars - if you put a weight in the Heinkel/Trojan or bond it would slow the car down - I think it took 3 MPH of the RHD Isetta's top speed.
                                                                                                                                                                                   Mike
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 10:02:13 PM by g-o-g-g-o »

marcus

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Re: Isetta counter weight
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2010, 10:06:22 PM »
A foot warmer, that makes sense!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face