Author Topic: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas  (Read 3936 times)

adi

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Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« on: October 28, 2010, 01:39:51 PM »
Hello again people. Been a while.

Well, this is a pain in the ass. Its typical for me to end up with a lemon, i know, but this little car is a little challenge!

I havn't posted on here for a while, iv been busy with a very rusty VW again (another rare type IV) but im slowly rebuilding the heinkel.

The problem is, i have come to a dead end with trying to find it's past.

-The only info I have is its serial number and it's original registration number. I have the VIN plate and the original number plate, the serial is 1531785, and the number is YLP570

-The DVLA have absolutely nothing on it.

-The Heinkel archives have absolutely nothing on it.

-The UK bubble car museum, the last known owner, claim to know absolutely nothing about it, although they did suggest some dim info on who may have owned it in the past, which ultimately lead to nothing (some guy who builds fridge trucks or something who claims to have only ever had one heinkel, but other people say he restored them badly before and got sued by disgruntled clients or something, i dont remember, i expect its all abit meaningless anyway, wild goose chase).

The only piece of real info that I had on it is a copy of the relevant page of the British number plate index book thing, whatever its called, that showed that that range of numbers was indeed issued in jan 1960 in London.

Of course, the London archives lost all their data, so no possibility there.

Im all out of ideas. Unfortunately, this info simply must be found, and giving up is not an option, so i have to keep digging. But, i don't know where.

It seems that Heinkel Ireland factory records don't survive.

I guess I could look into the possibility of searching any surviving data about Heinkel dealers in the area. Maybe somebody associated with one of them still has some records or something. There couldn't have been all that many Heinkel Irelands sold in London in late 59/early 60. That was the year the Mini came out, which killed bubble cars dead, so i don't suppose sales were that high by then.

Anybody got any bright ideas? Because I am all out!

So, the only thing I really know for sure is that I have a blue 1959 Heinkel Ireland, serial number 1531785, reg number YLP570.

P50

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 01:49:24 PM »
Only option is to have the year of the car confirmed and get a new reg from the DVLA when it's MOT'd and you need tax etc.

You were very lucky with the Scootacar. Most records in the UK were destroyed..
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adi

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 07:00:16 PM »
Only option is to have the year of the car confirmed and get a new reg from the DVLA when it's MOT'd and you need tax etc.

You were very lucky with the Scootacar. Most records in the UK were destroyed..

Unfortunately, I dont consider this an option. That the 'normal' easy way out.

Something rare like a heinkel deserves to at least have it's original plate back. If i wanted to just get an age related plate for it i would have done it long ago. Thats so....mediocre :lol:

I think its misleading to call me lucky, i did put in a hell of alot of effort into researching the scootacar. Since then I'v dug up info on a few other cars as well, a particular Volkswagen being the most difficult, i ended up spending a few months researching it. I just don't like age-related plates. I see it as a defeat.

So, giving up at this stage is definitely not an option. The giant evil mutated multi-headed mucus-spewing purple alien octopus that is the DVLA (at least...thats how I I imagine it) WILL give YLP it's reg back.

(now i just need to figure out how).

Hence I posted this. Anybody got any ideas I havn;t thought of? Its always nicer to have other people's opinions.

Jean

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 07:22:57 PM »
Hi there,  I did run your registration and serial number through the Register thinking that just maybe it had been put on there in the early days but sadly nothing turned up.  What about putting a 'do you know this car plea' in next RUMCAR NEWS.  You never know a lot of the older subscribers never look at the internet !  Just drop an email to tonyrumcars@aol.com      I do hope you succeed.  Jean
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 08:14:54 PM »
Its a North West London registration on a memorable vehicle from a time when cars didn't move around the country quite so much. If you're clutching at straws a photo and a plea in the letters page of one or more of the local North London papers has got to be worth a shot and probably won't cost you anything.
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P50

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 09:31:39 AM »
Only option is to have the year of the car confirmed and get a new reg from the DVLA when it's MOT'd and you need tax etc.

You were very lucky with the Scootacar. Most records in the UK were destroyed..

Unfortunately, I dont consider this an option. That the 'normal' easy way out.

Something rare like a heinkel deserves to at least have it's original plate back. If i wanted to just get an age related plate for it i would have done it long ago. Thats so....mediocre :lol:

I think its misleading to call me lucky, i did put in a hell of alot of effort into researching the scootacar. Since then I'v dug up info on a few other cars as well, a particular Volkswagen being the most difficult, i ended up spending a few months researching it. I just don't like age-related plates. I see it as a defeat.

So, giving up at this stage is definitely not an option. The giant evil mutated multi-headed mucus-spewing purple alien octopus that is the DVLA (at least...thats how I I imagine it) WILL give YLP it's reg back.

(now i just need to figure out how).

Hence I posted this. Anybody got any ideas I havn;t thought of? Its always nicer to have other people's opinions.

You were more than lucky.  The records were available.  Hull have kept the records for my Trident but the London P50's are long long gone.

I know someone with a car who wants to retain the plate with no documentary evidence to back it up. He has two hopes and one of them's Bob.

Unless you find a tax disc, MOT, buff/green log book or perhaps a repair bill, it simply will not happen.

Footnote

Are Heinkels rare?  Your Scootacar was. Circa 800 Mk1's were.

Perhaps you should have flipped the Heinkel and kept the Mk1?
"Men of worth act like men of worth, and men of genius, who produce
things beautiful and excellent, shine forth far better when other people
praise them than when they boast so confidently of their own achievements."
-Benvenuto Cellini

Big Al

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 09:48:57 AM »
Confired with Adi last night on this. It seems the car passed through both Bob Wilding's and Mike Cooper's hands. Neather seem to want to disseminate information so the trail goes cold as to where Bob got it. I know he cleared out several caches of parts like Dan Jeavons. I am trying to recall if he had that trailer load of dodgy Trienkels that arrived at a National, Weston Park? There were four I think and they came from behind a factory in the Birmingham/Stourbridge area. I ended up with at least one of these, possibly two but this was a period when I had dead Trienkels once a month so it is a job to recall. I am pretty certain it is not one of the Rugby cars as they had V5 or old logbooks with them. Bob Wilding had at least 7 cars and if you recall his idea was to restore shells and sell them part ex for shagged shells. This failed as two shells he restored become the subject of disputes as to quality of workmanship. I comment no further than one car was so out of alignment as a running car that the door would either close and not be water tight or be water tight and not close onto the lock on full adjustment. I managed to adjust the door for the best fit that could be got for the Leeds based owner while he was not looking......well its diplomatic when bending a door carefully.
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marcus

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 10:23:11 AM »
You should also put a request in the Heinkel Trojan Club's Cruiser News, that might get some response. Any photos of it?!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

adi

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 07:05:31 PM »
Well, since its Halloween...

In an earlier reply I described an image of what the DVLA looks like. I figured, i should draw it, otherwise its not so easy for others to imagine...



HAPPY HALLOWEEN EVERYBODY!

Big Al

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 07:19:27 AM »
The Gernica of Swansea!
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Chris Thomas

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 05:20:39 PM »
Dear Adi

I have spoken with my friend Bryan who drove every single Heinkel ever sold in England as he was the works manager at International Sales in Clapham and had to ensure that every car was ok before it was sent off to the dealers.

Bryan tells me that YLP numbers were cars sold directly by International sales, and some were their own demonstrators. I have a picture of one of the Heinkel scooters that was raced by International sales to promote the scooter, with registration YLP 600. Also demonstrators were sent on club rallies and to the motor shows. As now the garage tended to keep the memorable numbers for themself so 400, 500, 600 and possibly 555 and 444 were also demonstrators

International sales in Clapham was a sales outlet in its own right so many of the cars registered were not demonstrators. Number YLP 570 is therefore one that was sold from Clapham to the first owner and probably not a demonstrator.

The serial number is model 153 and the number is 1785.

Bryan says that he does not remember that car for any reason and knows nothing else about it.

Chris Thomas


adi

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 07:14:07 PM »
YAY! Thanks very much! A lead!

Anybody know how many dealers served London at the time?

Because, if that was the only dealer in London to sell Heinkels, then it's owner could have been anywhere. But, if there was another dealership, then it would be possible to guess the owner's home to a more precise location, going by the fact that 90% of the time you would buy something from the closest dealership.

I guess International Sales don't have any surviving books or any other records, right? I know that often when a dealership shuts down, about 50% of the time the records are just thrown away, and 50% of the time they end up in one of the staff's attic or basement. I managed to get some info on another car like this before, by tracking down a surviving ex employee who pointed me in the direction of the family of someone who died a while ago but hoarded all the books in his attic when the dealership closed.

Could you ask your friend if any records of that place still survive somewhere? Or if he knows of anybody who may know what happened to the paperwork when Sales International closed? It seems its not so uncommon for it to end up with somebody associated with the business. Its worth a shot anyway.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 07:16:43 PM by adi »

Chris Thomas

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Re: Researching my Heinkel's history...run out of ideas
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 11:04:40 PM »
Dear Adi

Bryan did explain that there were other agents in London like Pride and Clarks who sold mostly motor bikes, but were beginning to sell cars. I will ask him how many agents there may have been in London, or perhaps more precisely, who were the next nearest agents to International Sales. In those days most people bought cars from the nearest agent, as travel was not as easy and the cars would have been the same price whoever they bought from. I would imagine that most agents had a sales territory of about 3-5 miles radius in those days.

Bryan did say that he does not know of any records being kept of sales through International Sales as the company was owned by the Irish Dundalk company and does not think any records were passed to Trojon when they took over the manufacture. So unless you can find somebody in Ireland I think your quest may have slowed to a crawl.

It is amazing what people have in the way of photographs of their first car etc. So you may be lucky one of these days. You never know Tony M may have bought and sold it at one time or another, and have a picture. One day something will come to the surface. But until then International Sales in Clapham looks like the start of your little cars journey into history.

Chris Thomas