Author Topic: Dont bother with the vinegar!  (Read 12250 times)

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Dont bother with the vinegar!
« on: December 26, 2010, 06:15:25 PM »
I don't mean on your chips! I think we have discussed this before , many folk recommend boiling ones cruddy old carbs in vinegar to remove fuel lacquer, my Guzzino carb was very encrusted so I thought I would try it this afternoon. I followed the instructions and used white vinegar and water, dismantled and boiled everything for 45 mins, the mazac fizzed away alarmingly! At the end of it the castings looked quite clean but the jets were as bunged up as there were when they went in! I made some copper reamers by filing edges on some copper wire figuring that copper is softer than brass so wouldn't remove any metal, I run them through and some white crud came out, the result is that now my little Guzzi ticks over like clockwork!  The moral of the story is don't believe everything you read on the web! Of course it may have been because I used Tesco vinegar, if I had splashed out on Sarsons the results may have been different!   :D :D

Chris Thomas

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1326
  • old Banana
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2010, 07:54:04 PM »
Dear Bob

Being an Italian machine I think you should have used white wine vinigar.

Glad to hear that the handraulic method worked and she is ticking over nicely.

Chris Thomas

Basket case

  • Chatty
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2010, 07:56:54 PM »
Reading this on the web, I'm not sure if I should believe you.....?

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 09:42:57 AM »
Welcome to the forum Basket case, very droll! 

Chris, funny enough the stuff that came out of the carb looked a bit like mozzarella! I would not have wasted wine on such a procedure, of course Albert Steptoe would have boiled his carb in the vinegar and then poured it back in the bottle to use on his chips!
I'm preparing this bike to do the coast to coast run this summer with Prof Andrew Naham, curator of the science museum, he rides one to work every morning. [coase to coast is Yorkshire east coast to Cumbria west coast] Talking of autocycle runs, there is the mince pie run on Jan 2nd from the Orwell yacht club coming up and last year a few microcars joined in the run. Look at this link if you are interested.     http://www.icenicam.ukfsn.org/events.html           Looks like the weather will be warming up for it too! 

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4693
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 10:18:51 AM »
I'm preparing this bike to do the coast to coast run this summer with Prof Andrew Naham, curator of the science museum, he rides one to work every morning. [coase to coast is Yorkshire east coast to Cumbria west coast]

Yep and the finish is not far from BUMS depot north, where I might well be at that time. Bud did it on a Minimotor powered tandam some years back. It is a fair test of man and machine.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 02:26:31 PM »
Thats handy Al, you can get the drinks in at the finish line,  that or rescue us in your van after our little 65cc motors give up on us!

microcarlot

  • Occasional
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • Vespa 400 nut from TN
    • Microcarlot
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 05:38:55 PM »
I use Apple cyder vinegar a lot to unstick the pistons in bore. It does something to release the steel stuck to the alloy. Lots of times I fill 5 gallon bucket and put whole motor in. Never heard of boiling the carb. I still have some of the old carb cleaner from the 70's. It makes carbs look new.

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 06:08:52 PM »
I have been told that all the old carb cleaners that you could once buy, the ones that really worked have fallen foul of the new health and safety laws and that the latest offerings are not up to much. Use your 1970's old stock sparingly! I use a lot of paint stripper in the course of my work and have noticed the same thing, the latest stuff lacks bite.

Jim Janecek

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 06:17:41 PM »
when you boil an acid you increase the reaction.
You could get the same reaction at room temperature but what might take a month at room temp would take a few hours while boiling depending on the concentration of the acid.

Many years ago I had to do a job for Pepto Bismol where they wanted to show how a rose dipped in Pepto Bismol was "protected" from stomach acid (HCL, hydrochloric acid).
Dipping a rose into a beaker of room temperature HCL took about an hour for any visible degradation.  That would not work for the TV commercial.
I had to set up an electric heating station and double boiler to heat the acid to a point where, when they dipped the rose in while the camera was running it would immediately wilt and start to disintegrate after being "dipped".   The Pepto Bismol did indeed protect the rose when it was "dipped" but only delayed the reaction by about 10 seconds.

We all had to wear respirators and eye protection and if you are boiling vinegar I would recommend the same as it becomes quite strong at increased temperatures and the fumes can be nasty.

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 06:43:14 PM »
Thanks for that Jim. The memiors of a prop maker. I was following a recepie that specified dituting the vinegar by five to one which is most likely the reason it didnt work!

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4693
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 12:26:13 PM »
I go back to the French supermarkets where they sell chemicals. That is fine apparently as that is not a branded product for, say, cleaning toilets. Thus you can buy it. Here we do not get the option. I nearly got arrested trying to buy Ether to stick my domes together on the basis I might be a 'Prevert'. Instead I had to by Tonsil two part glue for some horrendous price. It is not as good either as it is a glue. Ether effectively welds the damage and can be made an invisible repair if you can stay awake! They used it in the War and my Dad showed me how to do it. Health and Safety is another reason we are going bankrupt as it cost a lot of money to protect idiots from themselves. More sense for them to remove their stupid genes from the gene pool as they will only produce more idiots to look after.

As a prior buyer of totally crudded up parts I have a dustbin full of Diesel. Anything looking iffy goes in the dustbin for at least a month. You would be amazed how good a penetrating oil this is. Forget WD40 etc. Once out of that much will undo, clean or release salvageable items. It kills of the iffy stuff like dodgy rubbers too. The only thing I find to have about is Wurth Rostov (trade) which really gets into seized metal.

Coke will ease stick Pistons if left. I assume it is the Phosphoric acid. So probably similar to Cider and other vinegar. Anything to aggressive will kill the piston which might be re usable. I have used it on carbs but with mixed results. I think it shifts the jelly etc but not the white concretion.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

  • Global Moderator
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1231
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 02:01:34 AM »
I think you can still buy Ether (Diethyl Ether) try google shopping or

http://www.shop4glue.com/50ml-diethyl-etherethyl-etherether-lab-reagent-grade-specialist-use-distillation-extraction-etc-85-p.asp

Apparently in the Victoria era you could buy it in pubs!
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

jackiep

  • Chatty
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2010, 11:05:02 PM »
I dont understand why you are bothering with vinegar at all. Its an acid & will etch metal not to mention the potential for damage on the carb , springs & needle . Surely it would be better to use the correct stuff & not risking your carb .. always an expensive item to replace , if you can find another . Wont petrol do just as well or Jizer ?

Kabine

  • Occasional
  • **
  • Posts: 18
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2011, 01:46:22 AM »
The use of a sonicator bath is I think the professional method for cleaning carbs with suitable cleaner fluid. It should also remove the deposits from the jets. You can pick one up pretty inexpensively second hand and some have built in heaters. A number of carb specialists offer this service.

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Dont bother with the vinegar!
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2011, 09:35:24 AM »
Jackie. This is what the debate is about, trying to find the "correct stuff". I have tried all the carb cleaners on the market and they dont work for removing this hard glaze. Petrol and Jizer certainly dont. Kabine is right when he talks about ultrasonic cleaning baths, this does work but is costly to have done professionally and when one has a limited need for this job its hard to justify buying the equipement for occoasional use. You know what us bubblers are like, always looking for a cheap solution. Although the vinegar didnt work there was no evidence that it etched anything although I didnt put needle, slide etc in the pot. What we need is a communal sonic bath that we can all chip in for and all use.