Author Topic: Progress Supreme Tourette  (Read 16670 times)

Rob Dobie

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 05:17:00 PM »
If anyone is interested, Tony wrote about the Tourettes history in one of his 'Featured Car' articles in No. 83, Winter 2004 issue of Rumcar News, plus a piece by myself. A Mr Roberts was responsible for welding up the tubes to make the chassis. I believe you can still get copies from Jean.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 05:22:27 PM by Rob Dobie »
Ain't got nuffink now except memories.

richard

  • Rich
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4566
  • Bond ,Gordon,Bruetsch
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 05:35:28 PM »
THE DESIGN chris THE DESIGN !!


whose malcolm is that bob gales brother :)
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 06:06:31 PM »
sorry to disagree again BUT this does NOT " emphasise many times that the car is all british ...." far from it actually .
it does state " produced in Britain " once ! it does refer to continental style and the french magazine refers to it as " plus continental"

now who is being unbiased Bob ?

dont doubt the next bit , it will be interesting to pin down possible first use of the term microcar. copy is poor and i cant find it , who said it , a magazine or Carrs ?

Thats because I wasnt talking about that particular document. There you go again, jumping to erroneous conclusions! I have emailed you the documents but here is just a sample.

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 06:15:31 PM »
Early use of the term MICROCAR  from scooter magazine 1956

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 06:32:18 PM »
Dear Bob and Malcolm

According to Tony's excellent book the factory was little more than an assembly plant for both the Tourette and the Progress scooters. The engines were Villiers, but do we know who would have made the GRP body, and who would have made the chassis, as there was no welding bay in the factory and no room for GRP moulds.  Apart from the wheels, tyres, electrics and glass which were probably all British, what else is there that could be anything other than British?

Interesting to see that the sales address was 852 Brighton Road, which was next to the old Purley Hospital, while the factory backed onto the railway line in Whytecliffe Road.


Chris Thomas


The workshop layout does show an existing body shop so maybe thats where they made them. As Rob said Mr Roberts made the chassis else where. Interestingly jean has a copy of a job description explaining all that would be required of the applicant which included purchasing all the tubing, cutting, fabrication and welding. I dont suppose we will ever know all the details but we have quite a lot thanks to Jean and Edwins relationship with Mr Merkelt family. currently the evidence that it was made under license from Brutsch is zero! I have been all over the Tourette and the only foriegn parts I could find were the brake drums which are KR200 , this is not suprising as Carrs were agents for supplying schmitts anyway so the spares were handy! All other parts are British.


« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 06:38:22 PM by Bob Purton »

Chris Thomas

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1326
  • old Banana
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2011, 07:07:28 PM »
Dear Bob

The Layout of the factory in Tony's book does not show a body shop, but says along the botton edge PRESENT PANEL SHOP, this shows that the building was the body panel repair shop for Carr's garage and this is how it will be laid out for the assembly of the Tourette and scooters. Well that is the way I read it.

The factory building is not all that big about 9m x 15m. and still exists

I would be very suprised if they did the GRP body work in house as it is very dusty.

Chris Thomas

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4693
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2011, 07:43:15 PM »
Hi Rob. Malcolm still owns it!

Who on Earth is Bob Gale then?

He is making a gust appearance on 'Progress Supreme Toilet. This is your Lifeboy' with his brother Malcolm. Sorry I have had a bad day and that's the best I can manage at the moment.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 07:59:31 PM by Big Al »
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4693
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 07:48:27 PM »
sorry to disagree again BUT this does NOT " emphasise many times that the car is all british ...." far from it actually .
it does state " produced in Britain " once ! it does refer to continental style and the french magazine refers to it as " plus continental"

now who is being unbiased Bob ?

dont doubt the next bit , it will be interesting to pin down possible first use of the term microcar. copy is poor and i cant find it , who said it , a magazine or Carrs ?

A task for the full Oxford Dickie, Lightweight Dictionary. Owwww!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4693
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 07:58:16 PM »
I have been all over the Tourette and the only foriegn parts I could find were the brake drums which are KR200 , this is not suprising as Carrs were agents for supplying schmitts anyway so the spares were handy! All other parts are British.

I wonder why they did not use the Sachs engine? I assume cost as it would be an import but in building the Progress there must have been good coms with Sachs. So were the Villiers engineering combine used for any other outsourcing? A suggestion for the bodies would be the ever name changing but at one time part of Super Accessories who made all sorts of GRP shells for specials etc. Certainly South of London there were little companies doing special autos, bits etc all over the place.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

richard

  • Rich
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4566
  • Bond ,Gordon,Bruetsch
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 08:33:04 PM »
this subject must have bored some no end, but i still enjoy the subject . so for a little longer.

Bob why are you SO defensive of Tourette design ? i have NEVER said or even suggested that the tourette was licensed from Bruetsch ( and i have looked back at every post i have ever made on the subject )
i have only ever said that they obviously are so close that the two designs cannot have come about independently and that one or  both designers must have been aware of the other. I MEAN BOB HAVE YOU SEEN THE REAR LIGHT MOUNTINGS ! they are identical to victoria spatz as well. this being a modified Bruetsch design . mr. merkelt must have seen the victoria spatz or visa versa - they are the same . smell the coffee bob
thanks for the email ( it was the same as posted here but easier to read) first use possibly of micro car and microcar in one article, 1956  unless you know better 
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2011, 08:36:30 PM »
Dear Bob

The Layout of the factory in Tony's book does not show a body shop, but says along the botton edge PRESENT PANEL SHOP, this shows that the building was the body panel repair shop for Carr's garage and this is how it will be laid out for the assembly of the Tourette and scooters. Well that is the way I read it.

The factory building is not all that big about 9m x 15m. and still exists

I would be very suprised if they did the GRP body work in house as it is very dusty.

Chris Thomas

It was just a thought Chris, as you say that is a rather small area for all that to be going on in!
About the choice of engine, I guess the Villiers would have been cheaper, according to one source Villiers had to approve of the finished prototype before allowing continued use of there engines! Apparently they were satisfied.

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2011, 08:59:44 PM »
this subject must have bored some no end, but i still enjoy the subject . so for a little longer.

Bob why are you SO defensive of Tourette design ? i have NEVER said or even suggested that the tourette was licensed from Bruetsch ( and i have looked back at every post i have ever made on the subject )
i have only ever said that they obviously are so close that the two designs cannot have come about independently and that one or  both designers must have been aware of the other. I MEAN BOB HAVE YOU SEEN THE REAR LIGHT MOUNTINGS ! they are identical to victoria spatz as well. this being a modified Bruetsch design . mr. merkelt must have seen the victoria spatz or visa versa - they are the same . smell the coffee bob
thanks for the email ( it was the same as posted here but easier to read) first use possibly of micro car and microcar in one article, 1956  unless you know better  

Hi Richard. I thought I sent you five pages of stuff in a PDF file? Shall I send you them again seperatley? As I said in a previous email, I'm a fan of Brutsch and so would be not bothered in the least if the cars were related but I'm interested in the truth and as also previously stated the Tourette was designed by Merkelt  before Brutsch was on the scene so if any copying was done it must have been the other way around. My point is that The original shape of the Tourette was drawn up in the mid forties, by the time it came to production in 56 the builders may well has clapped there eyes on a Victoria spatz and thought I think we will set our tail lights in like they have and then again they may not have.All I'm trying to do is dispell the myth that Brutsch designed the Tourette because it is simply not true. I know you didnt say that it was prduced under license but the erroneous piece of lit that you quoted did as I recall so thats why I harped on about it. Anyway, I guess you are either dafter than you look  ;D ;or are just trying to wind me up.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 09:01:49 PM by Bob Purton »

richard

  • Rich
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4566
  • Bond ,Gordon,Bruetsch
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 09:25:31 PM »
a bit of both really  ;) anyway you are a bit selective . the australian article that mentioned bruetsch you dismissed out of hand and yet you accept every word of the other articles that dont . included are the articles that say all british . then in another breath you mention messerschmitt wheels used by Carrs . i have only one other point to make on the similarities . MY BRUETSCH , AND POSSIBLY ALL BRUETSCHES, USE MKO WHEELS AS DO TOURETTE. another AMAZING COINCIDENCE .
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 09:28:13 PM by lightweight dickie »
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Bob Purton

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
    • Inter microcar
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 10:09:53 PM »
I note you chose not to select the point already made that Carr brothers were agents for supplying Messerschmitts and thus held stock spares, little wonder they used what they already had! Amazing coincidence? I think not!!!!!

No wonder I have no hair on my head, its all the banging it against the brick wall whilst trying to reason with you!! ;D ;D ;D Anyway, this is my last word, think what you want, messerschmitts are made from ww2 aircraft left overs, Isettas have no reverse gear, Apollo 11 didnt really land on the moon and Brutsch designed the Tourette!   I'm done!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 10:12:47 PM by Bob Purton »

Rob Dobie

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
Re: Progress Supreme Tourette
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2011, 10:57:53 PM »
Cor, I wish I hadn't started this thread now. HO HO.  ;D
Ain't got nuffink now except memories.