Author Topic: RELIGION - VILLIERS  (Read 7590 times)

Jonathan Poll

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2012, 10:12:55 PM »
again depends on your refernce i suppose but it was an unused sachs engine that Fend sorted for the Tiger . i heard TIGER was out due to issues with Krupps . and i believe the TG became the TGR and thats why they ended up known as the Tiger . 

Lets see what my dad replies, he knows a lot more than me!
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
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john Meadows

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2012, 09:16:05 AM »
Jonathan,  Sorry to dash your dreams but no Gullwing Frisky mould survives.
Only two cars built and only one had an engine
I have the original buck but it is very fragile
see www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk under  Events / The grand Line up
and Protoypes / Gullwing prototype

John

Big Al

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2012, 09:43:03 AM »
Not sure if what became the FMR500 engine had a prior incarnation to the agricultural use it was put to but it appeared as supplied to the Cultimax farm/small holding machine before the Schmitt was thought of. So in other words a tractor engine in a similar way to the TR2. Both sets of owners are more than happy to deflect this information but it makes nothing less of the car itself, only any assumed status that never existed. Both cars records stand for themselves as pretty rugged performers.

Allegedly Sachs were well aware of the engines shortcomings and probably had misgivings about the number of units Fend would sell into the bargain, despite the success of the KR200 which owed much to Sachs tweaking their unit to suit the car. They chose not to manufacturer the engine but offered the construction rights. FMR had no prior experience of making an engine but bereft of a suitable engine that another manufacturer would supply they bought the rights to the 500 twin and made it. Clearly with no control to the product Sachs wanted to distance themselves from what was, for them, an out dated design. It is on this basis that the FMR500 engine is not the easiest thing to live with as it is made with some quality control issues and is a bit of a one off. That it was used to achieve some very good competition results and that the hard core owners make these units reliable says something for the design, which is undoubtedly flawed. What would have happened if money had been spent on it so it had a gearbox of the quality of, say, the Goggo, who knows. It would certainly have been even quicker over the ground. Difficult to know if it would have sold many more as it would have had to have been even more expensive.

The TG500 appeal is all rolled up with this engine thing. So much of the car was a cul de sac of automotive design in hindsight yet it works and works better than it should do. There will never be another car like it. It is that rare thing a successful failure and you cannot help but feel for it on some level.
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

richard

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2012, 09:56:02 AM »
obviously i am not and never have been an expert on the item we are now discussing ( never stopped me before tho  :D )  - BUT this article refers to the info i posted and conforms with what i had understood - is this incorrect then ?

http://www.germanmotorcycles.cl/Messerschmitt/Messerschmittcoments.html
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Big Al

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 11:37:02 AM »
Hmm. Not very accurate and coloured by anyone German engineer being an utter hero. So Glas was a fool who went phut and Fend was a success who was unlucky. Who made the most cars and money again? Does this guy know Erich von Denikein at all?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Jonathan Poll

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2012, 05:41:44 PM »
Jonathan,  Sorry to dash your dreams but no Gullwing Frisky mould survives.
Only two cars built and only one had an engine
I have the original buck but it is very fragile
see www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk under  Events / The grand Line up
and Protoypes / Gullwing prototype

John

Oh, I saw that picture before, and I thought it was the mold!

Lets hope one day one of the cars will be found! (by me hopefully!)
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

richard

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2012, 04:53:45 PM »
in 1959 villiers celebrated 60 years in business . they cited 312 different manufacturers and  87different uses for their engines
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Big Al

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 08:23:57 PM »
in 1959 villiers celebrated 60 years in business . they cited 312 different manufacturers and  87different uses for their engines

88 if you include Kedge anchor.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

richard

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 09:02:08 PM »
been on the broads and they make a good mudweight is that the same thing . they must be a stationery engine though  ;)
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Big Al

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Re: RELIGION - VILLIERS
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2012, 10:50:13 AM »
in 1959 villiers celebrated 60 years in business . they cited 312 different manufacturers and  87different uses for their engines

Going back to the quote. I wonder how many of those manufacturers are still trading? A sample of lost manufacturing base and skills.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs