Author Topic: trike towing dolleys yes/no  (Read 13189 times)

richard

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trike towing dolleys yes/no
« on: February 05, 2012, 05:30:04 PM »
i have asked before , what do we think of these devices for cars such as a Gordon . if no please why not . they look pretty good spec to me

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIKE-TRANSPORTER-TRAILER-DOLLY-TOURING-RECOVERY-/110784270179?pt=UK_CartsParts_Vehicles_ATVQuad_Trike_Parts_Accessories_SM&hash=item19cb41cf63
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richard

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 05:43:10 PM »
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Jonathan Poll

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 06:25:43 PM »
Yeah, they look great!

If you dont want to pay that much for it, hack of the rear end of a 4 wheeler Isetta!
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john Meadows

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 06:46:32 PM »
I may be wrong but I thought only garages could use a dolly to retrieve broken down cars etc,
How does it fit in with the current confusion / lack of clear legislation on the use of A frames.
Either way don't use one in Spain where it is illegal to tow one vehicle with another unless it is mounted on a trailer.

Bob Purton

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 07:19:31 PM »
Yes, I remember hearing something about them only being for recovery professionals. May be wrong. My pal Steve used one for some time to tow his Reliant Ant, it behaved well untill you try to reverse!

richard

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 07:37:04 PM »
the first one looks a proper piece of kit - but for it's money would the second one do the job - how would it fail me - thanks
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 12:11:43 AM »
It's not a straightforward issue, but this looks to be a fairly authoritative source - for the UK at least.

http://www.ttas.co.uk/towsafe.cartransport.html
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Barry

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 07:57:35 AM »
So when I towed my Morris Isis with a Morris minor using an 'A' frame, it wasn't strictly legal?  The Morris minor brakes did seem to struggle a bit!

Big Al

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 09:29:23 AM »
It's not a straightforward issue, but this looks to be a fairly authoritative source - for the UK at least.

http://www.ttas.co.uk/towsafe.cartransport.html

That is what I understand to be the law too. It changed toward the end of the 90's I think. Before then towing dollys were fine and I used one all over Europe, though the rules varied. I had to talk myself out of a few situations but clearly the situation was confused.

There are hidden risks in using dollys too. The law states the assembly is considered a trailer. So despite your expensive classic insurance guess what your insurer will say if you have an accident with your expensive classic car on a dolly. This would remain the case if your home made dolly failed and parted from the tow car, it is still a trailer. SOME NORMAL GENERAL INSURANCE POLICIES COVER TOWING, MOST DO NOT COVER TRAILERS 'UNATTACHED FROM THE TOW VEHICLE'. It pays to check but a failure of an articulated trailer is a guaranteed accident to the car towed and it could be neither insurance on either car will pick up the bill. A piccy copper could seize your 'trailer' as it is not insured or safe.

Some cars are not suitable for towing anyway. See where the drive train is turning the engine, travelling in reverse and not sending oil round the drive train which is design for Oil dispersion forwards. You still wear out your consumables like tyres, bushings etc. Neither is the tow car design for speeds in excess of the original performance window. Variomatics are simply not to be towed save in an emergency due to the drive management system and risk of perminant and expensive damage. 

For all these reasons I dispensed with the Dolly in favour for a van or trailer. It is simpler and safer. The only real advantage of a dolly was always its ease of storage, light return tow weight saving fuel and convenience of use when moving other peoples machines or cars not being as I was not paying the maintenance costs. I retain an A frame for Isetta, Trienkel and 'Schmitt as they can be very handy for delivery/collection including ferries and tunnels where saving on fees can be obtained.

For the above reasons I now 'over trail' by using a light weight ex racing car four wheeled trailer even on small trikes. If I moving a £15k Messerschmitt I do not want a puncture pulling the trailer into an accident. Been there, done that. The unused area round the car on the deck gives space for intrusion of other things not to reach the car also. So I can mow down cyclists without risking damage to my well placed Schmitt, for instance. Important when you live near Oxford! Yet the light weight keeps fuel use down but for the drag of the extra axle. The down side is it needs a 15ft by 6ft parking space. If I were stuck for space I would fit it with several curved rails and mount a winch on the wall so I could pull it onto its side for when it was out of use. My box trailer lives on it tail against the wall for this reason having been made for this option. Indeed it is also a great anti theft device and could be padlocked in place.
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richard

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 10:32:47 AM »
thanks for the  input so it seems all i need is a garage with 16' height and enough empty floor space to manoevre the trailer in to get it upright . impossible . a move to scale models or stationary engines seems the only solution then  :-\
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

richard

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 11:07:35 AM »
RIGHT

have i got this correct ? - thanks rusty chrome for the link.

any towed vehicle is a trailer
if under 750 kg ( 1650 lb ) or over 1/2 the weight of the towing vehicle the "trailer" requires independent braking on all its wheels
therefore :
weight of a Gordon 6 imp. cwt 44 lbs = 716 lb - the Gordon weighs less than half the allowable weight of 1650 lb ! no problems then ?
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Big Al

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 12:48:36 PM »
Slight typo - needs to be under 750kg and not over half the towing weight of the towing vehicle as well to comply without all wheel braking.... I am sure that's what you meant.

Yes, it falls into the same area as A framing really. One benefit of playing with small cars as this loophole is not an option for most cars and ideal if you have little space or a security issue at home as the frame/dolly will probably hang up somewhere out of sight. If you are clever you can wire the car to save having a trailer board as well. Just attach to towing device, plug in and go. I can see why its so attractive but its not without its problems. It is a balance of expediency over an ideal solution.

I believe some cars you see towed behind large campers are fitted with a brake lever to knock the cars brakes on. I am also pretty sure a lot of these towed cars are illegal under the strict letter of the law, as are some of the campers themselves if loaded up for the holidays to be overweight and out of drivers licence groupings, one advantage old old fogey rights as I have the ability to drive the big'uns without further testing like many on this forum if you have not lost it by ignoring your photo card licence categories.......
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richard

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 06:04:28 PM »
as you say al i made a mistake under 750kg seems fine and the Gordon is way under that - i suspect most old school micro's are
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

john Meadows

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, 04:51:18 PM »
Your car when towed is a trailer
The law says if a trailer has brakes then they must be operated by towing vehicle regardless of weight;
So if tour car weighs 500kg but has brakes they must all operate when towing,
They must also disengage automatically when reversing.

A frames are neither legal or illegal in the UK it has yet to be sorted however they must comply with the above.
France is looking at it but in Spain it is definitely to use them the only way in Spain in on a trailer.
The bit that says if its legal in your EEC country the it has to be "tolerated" in others is cobbles, Spain proving the point.

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richard

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Re: trike towing dolleys yes/no
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2012, 05:09:07 PM »
sorry john clear as mud . your first line says " your car when towed is a trailer" then later you bring in 500kg ! why ? what relevance has 500kg ?
( the Gordon weighs much less than 500kg )
sorry also " if tour car ...." is that the towing car, the towed car unclear 

thanks john
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977