HAMMOND GORDON

[richard]

done long winded reply and attached 3 pics - too much so not loaded - i always have this prob whats the answer ? anyway try again
bottom right of dash is a hole , this takes the pull knob with stiff cable , not stranded, to the solenoid immediately in line but on the inside of the top bulkhead . the two screws and plunger pin come through the bulkhead and 2 cables attach , 1 to starter motor and 1 to battery negative terminal . pull cable and engage starter immediately push knob back in . i had all the bits though needing replacement and, importantly, the holes in the bulkhead which rob did not have !

[richard]

and the other pics.

[richard]

thanks again both. i didn't remove the wiring etc. it was all disconnected and a jigsaw in a box , but with a poor picture to copy   in fact i have a feeling i didn't have a harness at all and i got the harness from big al with other Gordon spares . it is however definitely an original cloth bound Gordon harness and the "puny" starter cable is the correct length and in the correct location to reach from solenoid to lucas starter motor - perhaps this is in fact the reason so few Gordons survive . the possibly very hot starter and solenoid is actually fairly close under the bonnet to the fuel tank too  

[Rob Dobie]

the holes in the bulkhead which rob did not have !

I didn't have much bulkhead either. 

[richard]

literally AMAZING i could very easily supply a template of where all the holes should be, their sizes and what they are for .was there any sign of it having been burned out ? 

[Rob Dobie]

Well don't send it to me as I haven't touched it since 2009.  There was so much rot all you could see were holes and fresh air!  Not good for a body that was coated in zinc in the 1950s  

[steven mandell]

thanks again both. i didn't remove the wiring etc. it was all disconnected and a jigsaw in a box , but with a poor picture to copy   in fact i have a feeling i didn't have a harness at all and i got the harness from big AL with other Gordon spares . it is however definitely an original cloth bound Gordon harness and the "puny" starter cable is the correct length and in the correct location to reach from solenoid to Lucas starter motor - perhaps this is in fact the reason so few Gordons survive . the possibly very hot starter and solenoid is actually fairly close under the bonnet to the fuel tank too  

Having just completed starter wire repair/ replacement on my Trojan that had melted, I can attest to the fact that the wire gauge shown in your most recent photo of your newly prepared manual solenoid is far more correct.  I would not recomend anything less than a number 10 gauge wire and ring terminal fittings.
With Al's incredible memory of voltage regulator tab identification numbers and even wire colors, I was able to figure out that on my Trojan the wires to the starter and wires to the generator had been switched by the previous owner, which resulted in a recurrent meltdown of all the insulation off the misguided wire.
This was especially challenging to diagnose, as electricity going into the generator coils did result in what appeared to be sufficient engine rotation speed, but alas with too much resistance through the smaller gauge generator wire, and possibly with a reversed direction of rotation.
I always heard that Gordans self incinerated due to insufficient engine compartment air flow.  But after seeing the wire to the starter that you've shown, I believe it more probable that this could have served as an ignition filament for gas tank vapors.
After all if it could bring down a jumbo jet, why not a Gordon?

[richard]

well steven thats the very first time i have heard of Gordons , a Gordon ? , going up in flames . they certainly weren't known for it . where have you heard that ?

[steven mandell]

Did all the Gordons catch fire due to unprofessional electrics? The plot thickens.

Here is one place that I read it.

[steven mandell]

perhaps this is in fact the reason so few Gordons survive . the possibly very hot starter and solenoid is actually fairly close under the bonnet to the fuel tank too  

Here is another place where it was inferred.
Arn't you paying attention, at least to what you yourself are writing?

[Bob Purton]

Niether Richard nor I have ever heard of a Gordon self igniting, what we both said was meant as a wild suggestion as to why so few survived. Thats all.

[steven mandell]

Well excuuse me for taking the both of you seriously.
No mention was made of the facts that you were both speculating wildly.
My confidence in your authorities caused me to temporarily over ride my inexact memory of a car that I may likely never see.
There was at least one other crude English box of the same era that had earned a reputation for self incineration due to minimal air circulation in the engine bay.
One such self immolating wonder was known as the Rodley.
Allard Clippers also had cooling problems, however not as horrifically reputed.

[richard]

An early invacar made by Gordon , engine in the rear - no cooling , did gain a reputation for self combustion and was withdrawn by the Ministry of Health . The Gordon Invacar was redesigned with the engine at the side to enable cooling . i spoke to the man involved in the redesign and no such problems reoccurred. The designer then went to Canada on a long term contract ( no he was not banished to the colonies for his sins ) some time later he was "amazed" to see his single seat invacar relaunched as a family car ! after yet another revamp , mainly involving extending the width .

[Stuart Cyphus]

An early invacar made by Gordon , engine in the rear - no cooling , did gain a reputation for self combustion and was withdrawn by the Ministry of Health . The Gordon Invacar was redesigned with the engine at the side to enable cooling .

 Wrong! Vernon Industries NEVER made a rear-engined vehicle of any description. Vernons first got involved in invalid carriage production in 1950 by tendering for a private contract between themselves and Invacar Ltd to produce carbon copies of the side-engined Invacar Westcliff so that Invacar Ltd could continue to forfill their Ministry contracts whilst they moved from Westcliff-on_sea to their new factory in Thundersley.  In 1952 Invacar introduced their Mk 8 and no longer required their link-up with Vernon Industries. By this time Vernons had decided that an official Ministry contract was worth chasing and so along came the Vernon Invalid Car after a couple of prototypes, all of which were side-engined!  

 The vehicle you're thinking of, with a reputation for self-combusting, is the AC All Weather, of which neither Vernons or Invacar had anything whatsoever to do with.

[richard]

i stand corrected Stuart ,Tony Thoburn who i have spoken to, mentioned the new design of AN invacar . i gather now that this was not a Vernons vehicle . So Tony was at least partly responsible for the design produced by Vernons , with side mounted engine , which as said had no reputation for self combustion.