Author Topic: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!  (Read 18820 times)

Bob Purton

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Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« on: February 07, 2014, 07:06:06 PM »
As some may know Chris Thomas and I have long wondered what windscreen was used on the Progress Tourette. As a small fledgling manufacturer we have always assumed that Carr brothers would have used a screen from a contemporary car to keep costs down. We were privileged to have a guided tour of the Pilkingtons windscreen factory today, the one that remakes all the classic car screens and armed with an old Progress windscreen we were confident that the old timers there along with their data base would be able to identify it for us. No such luck!  A screen from a Riley 1500 came reasonably close but was far from a match. So, it remains a mystery!  Unless you know differently???????

Big Al

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 11:23:17 PM »
Did you check out the rear screens, These are narrower than front screens so offer a smaller screen for the front of a small car. See Goggo Dart
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 08:38:35 AM by Big Al »
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steven mandell

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 08:13:52 AM »
That would make it the epitome of Bob's efforts at reverse engineering.

Big Al

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 08:47:16 AM »
I still have a 'what is that off' screen pile. Bit buried at the moment and probably down to 10 items. Found two Scootacar screens over the years clearing places out. Chudliegh Auction of NSU dealer, I got some 100 screen for £2, to get a Scootacar screen. But also unknowns. Frisky and so on. Never throw anything away. Of course the joke is I need a Scootacar MK2 screen now but probably have rarer stuff.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2014, 12:45:07 PM »
Yes, rear screens are also on the data base. I understand your assumption that we are looking for a smallish screen Al but with a Tourette its not the case, the screen is very wide for a microcar. Wider than the riley 1.5 we looked at.
As we toured from workshop to workshop by coincidence we spotted on a bench the buck for making Isetta bubblecar screens, I mention this to our guide and he pointed out it was for the French version, he didn't know it was called Velam. Apparently someone in France has ordered a batch of them!

Big Al

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 12:03:05 PM »
Handy. I would like one for my car.

Not a prob on these as they were originally laminated. The Riley is one of the narrower cars of its era. I wonder what it might be. On the basis they nicked the Knott suspension it might be worth seeing what, if any, cars they imported and dealt. They would have trade access too that stock, meaning it was cheaper.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 01:21:39 PM »
Well what ever they used it was an appalling fit! Anybody having a new one made would be advised to have one made that actually fits. It's a strange scenario, they changed the body shell and gave it a level curved plinth for a windscreen frame to sit on and then fitted a screen and frame that only sat on the plinth at either end, the centre front overhangs the plinth and is amateurishly covered up with a strip of rubber. The rubber is vertical at the centre and horizontal either end. It was obviously a series of compromises. Strangely, the riley screen although being too small did have a more suitable curvature.
Note these pics of this car, the other surviving example is the same.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 01:26:01 PM by Bob Purton »

steven mandell

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 06:44:40 PM »
Can laminated glass be carefully ground on its edges, and kept cool enough to keep it from cracking?
Anybody tried this with a showered or submerged windshield?  Tile and brick is often cut this way.  I know it keeps the dust down, but has to keep the temperature, and hence temperature gradient down also if done right.
Got an old, even broken windshield to experiment with?
Then again a good glass or the windshield shop you visited may already know.
Of course, you would still need to remake the frame bottom.  But that should only prove to be conventionally bothersome.

Fascinating collection!  Is it Jeans?

Big Al

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2014, 06:53:26 PM »
Laminated screens are cut with high pressure water apparently.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

swanktank

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 06:57:16 PM »
I bought a new laminated w/screen from a friend who had had 3 made. When I could not fit it, I discovered it was a gnat's eyebrow too big. A local glass shop was able to shave it down successfully (though the first thing the chap in the shop said was, "It will probably break".

Big Al

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2014, 07:08:35 PM »
Edgy things.

Shot in the dark, NSU/Necker 1100/1300 Fiat.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Jim Janecek

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 07:15:46 PM »
laminated glass is simply two sheets of glass glued together with a plastic piece in the middle to prevent everything from flying apart into sharp bits if broken. This make it ideal for front windscreens that may encounter a stray rock and keeps a chip or crack from spreading throughout.
The laminated aspect makes the glass piece -as a whole- stronger than a simple sheet of glass as well.

I once had to punch a hole in one to make it appear as though an object (driver's head) had gone through it.  I ended up slamming it several times with a bowling ball to get the right look and then carefully snipping away the parts I did not want.  Strong stuff.
As Al points out, cutting must be done differently because you cannot simply score the glass, then snap it.  You would only be scoring one of the pieces, not the other.   Shaving along the edge can be done because you are shaving BOTH pieces of glass at the same time.

It is not the same as "tempered" or hardened glass which is heat treated and much stronger than normal glass.  You can hit it in the centre with a hammer and it won't break.  But tap it on the edge with a pointed object and you pierce the external "hard coat" and release all the "interior" that is under tension.  It all breaks at once into smaller, rounded shards.  You cannot cut tempered glass.  It is cut to size, THEN tempered.
Despite my comments about external and internal, it is a single sheet of glass.  The properties have just been altered by the heat-treatment.

Bob Purton

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2014, 08:26:41 PM »
I'm not going to give too much away but if you look out for a future RCN all your questions will be answered.
I will say that I have a mate who restores classic cars in Australia who cuts down larger laminated screens to smaller ones. He uses a standard glass cutter but has to score both sides. He has been doing this successfully for years!  Jim's right, you cannot do this with a toughened glass one, it just shatters. I play around a lot edging down lenses and alike, its amazing what you can do with a diamond disc.

Chris Thomas

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2014, 10:44:30 PM »
Dear Bob

I was once told The secret of cutting flat laminated glass sheets is to score one sheet, pour a little lighter fluid into the crack and light it so it melts the central plastic sheet then snap the second sheet on a straight edge. This only works for straight cuts. How you do it with a curved cut I hate to think.

The article is coming together well

Chris Thomas

steven mandell

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Re: Tourette windscreen mystery continues!
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 10:52:17 PM »
So, do any of these suggestions seem like a reasonable way of reconfiguring your Tourette shield's base to a more appropriate contour?