Author Topic: Your dream Microcar  (Read 24905 times)

Bob Purton

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Your dream Microcar
« on: February 20, 2014, 03:40:37 PM »
So, if you could build your own microcar using all the best stuff from the classic microcars you are familiar with What would you use and what would it look like?
Who is going to start us off?

marcus

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 04:13:37 PM »
Just ONE micro each?  :(

Oh well, Rotax 400 or BMW 600 in a TG 500 body, with a Cabriolet top section for summer and dome for the rest of the year. In burgundy and silver 2 tone. Thanks Bob, you can start making it for me now.

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richard

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 08:07:46 PM »
i apologise for the poor quality of copy but it's all i have , we didn't used to be so fussy , this from 1955/57 ? i ask you who could argue ?........
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:09:56 PM by richard »
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Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 08:46:18 PM »
I think we can do better than that! It could be a four wheeler for a start!

Stef

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 08:48:59 PM »
Aside from a Trojan like I've just bought?

A Peel Trident!  :D

richard

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 08:49:53 PM »
i should hope we could !
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 09:17:28 PM »
How about  Isetta brakes, Trojan suspension, Goggo engine, Frisky steering, Avolette body?

Big Al

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 10:08:03 PM »
For me the Trojan suspension is well founded but ultimately fails to cope with the practical demands made of it. On the basis we are looking at larger diameter wheels for comfort and can use modern tyre technology to achieve a narrow but grippy tyre the larger wheel can be offset against width (Modern manufacturers note), meaning the width need need breach microcar proportions to provide safe yet lively performance. 10 inch minimum and possible 12 inch. So steering bars are probably out, for modern use, save that the Heinkel rack could stand gearing up a bit. The Goggo front suspension works well, as does the kingpin in needle nardle noo bearings. All it wants is a tweak to keep water out. Adjustable coil overs on here and you have a pretty tunable system that will cope with most situations, rally proven in Australia and Africa. Nick the disc brake option from the NSU Prinz and stopping is no issue.
The above is not fixed to width beyond that about 4 inches narrower than a Goggo. We approach a Messerschmitt type front end with better suspension, steering and brakes.

Rear needs to be more akin to the Tiger arrangement but with a lighter lower wishbone plus a second wishbone to control the camber of the rear wheels better. Effectively like a small Formula Ford or other racing set up. The best period engine is a more difficult selection. Clearly the wankel is best but is it microcar? Probably not. The NSU 600 is a bit big for what I had in mind. However the Steyr Puch offers low centre of gravity and great tune-ability. It matches Fiat gearboxes, and if there is a budget a 5 speed gearbox is achievable. So that gives is roughly a Fiat 500 width rear.

Taking the front and rear, borrowing from Gordon Murray and precursors, it is then possible to place a bench seat behind the drivers single seat. This offers seating for one fatty, two normals or three kids, or a large amount of shopping. In most cases the car retains its neutral weight bias for cornering allowing for efficient fast a to b speeds without lots of point and squirt. The front to rear is neccasarily rear biased but remember the driver is sitting much more forward than in most cars. Much of bthe ancillary gubbins can be housed in the nose further evening out weight distribution. However should the car loose adhesion its Achilles heel will be the dumbell nature of weight distribution over a mid engined car. So a spin would last longer. To alter that to mid engine might mean to long a wheelbase for the track. Only some complex maths would prove some kind of sure guide.

Body, effectively a teardrop traveling backwards with aerodynamic wings guiding air to two intakes, but allowing the passingers to close into the car for access. So a car with a waist. Probable an asymmetric gullwing door/roof structure with a pop out window on the opposing side for summer driving and emergency escape. This would mean left and right handed versions probably, so if theoretically productionised, that might have to alter. However it would be a four wheeled bubblecar and would singe the arse off a Tiger for a little more width and a huge dollop more of practicality. All parts were available at the time, it could have existed.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 09:31:51 AM »
You have obviously thought about this a lot Al.

How about using something like this on a three wheeler?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261009417110?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

marcus

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 10:10:16 AM »
Amazing, I have actually looked into a similar leaning mechanism over the last 30 years or so and even made a few models
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AndrewG

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 12:09:20 PM »
Amazing, I have actually looked into a similar leaning mechanism over the last 30 years or so and even made a few models

I had a test drive in the Carver leaning three-wheeler and it was pretty special for cornering.  A nice touch was the warning buzzer that told you you were reaching the limits of tilt and should not corner faster - this was of course like a red rag to a bull, with everyone going round a deserted roundabout until the buzzer sounded....

The Carver would pass most RumCar tests, being 660cc, though with a turbo on it, it definitely isn't in the spirit of the microcar.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:11:12 PM by AndrewG »

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 01:55:30 PM »
Somewhat along the same lines, I was reading about someone who'd tested a leaning sidecar outfit in the 1920s the other week. The idea was thought to have virtue, the design tested was absolutely hopeless for almost every aspect of road use and had a particularly amusing description of the amazing coordination and strength required to put the machine onto it's centre stand when parking (otherwise the thing just fell over in a big heap).
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marcus

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 04:51:57 PM »
An odd leaning Monowheel, about 1/3 of the way down this page from Douglas Self's BRILLIANT "Museum of Retro Technology" site

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/motorwhl/motorwhl3.htm#big
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Chris Thomas

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 09:18:44 PM »
Dear Bob

Well here goes with my dream Microcar. It would be based around a three cylinder Triumph 675 cc water cooled engine laid horizontally and connected to an AC generator and battery system. The large Triumph motorcycle size wheels would be used on all four wheels and incorporated with Michelin in wheel electric motors connected to a computerised torque split transmission controller to give 4 wheel drive, and disc brakes all round and energy recovery system on overrun. The wheels would be positioned at each corner and connected to an electronic four wheel steering system, which was speed sensitive like on the Citroen CX.  The body would be as narrow as possible with three seats set one in front and two behind, with sliding doors on both sides. The body would have the front and rear wheels exposed with close fitting mud guards. The engine would be between the front wheels and the fuel tank and a small battery pack in the rear to give 50 50 weight distribution. The body chassis unit would be all aluminium like a Rolls Royce.

The suspension needs to be ride height adjustable, high for deep water at one end for off road work, and lower for fast motorways like the Citroen CX. The vehicle would be short, narrow, maneuverable, lots of torque, able to run in milk float mode, and energy efficient.

All the technology exists.

Is that unusual enough for you?

Chris Thomas

Big Al

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 09:32:53 PM »
You have obviously thought about this a lot Al.

How about using something like this on a three wheeler?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261009417110?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Not so much in a concept for one car out of period bits. Working on something that is well thought out has its rewards and you remember them. There will be stuff I missed as I never worked on it. Westinghouse starter? So shuffled the bits and the Murray concept, as has Chris, to come up with something. Keep the ideas coming and there might be something worth building!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs