Author Topic: Your dream Microcar  (Read 25436 times)

Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 12:51:21 PM »
Al... I think you were the only one who did stick to the concept.

Jamie...Oh I see. So Berkeley body shell, BMW700 suspension and all the rest totally non microcar? [that's cheating! ;D]  By the way, Berkeley's don't have a chassis, did you mean the body? I like the photo , tell us more about that car please. How are you getting one with the Ginetta? I'm looking forward to seeing that when I come pick up my scooter.

steven mandell

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2014, 01:12:55 PM »
my dream micro car would have to  be a BERKELEY 4 wheeler with a small block Cheviot engine.
I can only hope that means that there will be an extra Excelsior 492 triple available for a Zeta Sport coupe.

Did you mean to spell small block CHEVROLET engine?
If so you could try to find an old 327 cu in. version and deactivate 7 of the cylinders and still qualify it as a more modest larger engine spec micro.
Failing that, you would have to de stroke a more modern version before performing the deactivation.
Of course that wouldn't be the critical point, as the weight of the engine would likely fracture the Monicoque chassis.
Stock Berkley chassis are known to cause their doors to pop open during cornering/ upon hitting bumps due to the insufficient torsional rigidity of the structure. 
However you could extend the tubing structure of the very sturdy roll cage shown in your picture into a complete tube chassis- ending up with a Funny Car of sorts, but it surely would never handle well with the tremendous forward weight bias.
That is the largest roll cage I have ever seen.  Is the driver seven feet tall?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 01:27:41 PM by steven mandell »

richard

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2014, 01:19:04 PM »
Cheviot engine dis-allowed and then monoquock ok steven ?   :D
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micro marshall

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2014, 02:48:01 PM »
actually on second thoughts i would probably use the opperman chassis because it corners well and it is strong, ish! but i would definatly still use the small block because it makse a nice noise. I would also put a hard top on it and not a soft top. 8) 8)


but if i wanted a car that did the best burnouts and number ones, than i would pick this ;D ;D ;D
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Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 03:20:35 PM »
Either way none of them would be microcars anymore so are disqualified.
I guess Berkeley's have always been candidates for engine conversion, after all the manufacturers did much the same, shoving in just about anything that was available.
Personally I don't like anything that changes the shape of the body like mini and Metro units do. I did see a very tastefully converted one a while back at the Great Walden steam rally/ Berkeley club rally which had a Lloyd twin fitted.

micro marshall

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2014, 05:55:50 PM »
I know I am going to start a flame war, but I think the Berkeley is one of the best looking micro cars! ;D ;) ;)
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Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2014, 06:17:52 PM »
I'm with you on that one Dodger!
Only the four wheeler though.

steven mandell

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2014, 06:28:04 PM »
You should be looking to import a K class car. The K class, is not microcar now, but used to be when it was 360cc. All the hard work has been done for you, including making the engine bigger. Some of the designs are bonkers. So dreams do exist.
The most generally accepted upper limit for microcar engine displacement is 700 c.c. 
K class cars still have to adhere to the 660 cc limit first enacted in 1990.
With MAXIMUM allowed length of 3.4 meters/ 11.2 feet, and width of 1,48 meters/ 4.9 feet, I'd say that size wise they still qualify even if their engines  push the upper limits of displacement. 
The fact that they perform well should not be held against them, as all cars have generally improved over time.
Curiously, the horsepower is still  limited to 63 based on the fact that this was the most hp being made by any of the manufacturers when the last upgrade in displacement was allowed.
It is said that some of the higher performance models, such as the Autozam Az-1 and Suzuki Cappuccino with turbos and intercoolers residing atop their twin cam 3 cylinder engines, exceeded these limits but lied about their extra pep.

I do concede that their are worlds of differences in driveability, safety, reliability (possible contender Goggomobiles), handling, ride and acceleration, as well as top speed, and that these cars deserve to be in a different class of sorts to reflect these improvements.
But if capacities are still used to define a microcar, then these deserve mention as modern macro micros, or other similar moniker.

There are obviously groups of micros below 400cc, 200 cc, and 50 cc.
What moniker would you use to describe a TG 500?

Bob Purton

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2014, 06:39:01 PM »
I think macro micros is a good way of describing them. Personally K class, NSU prinz, and things of that kind are not microcars but small cars. I know from an Americans perspective they are minute but in Europe they are just smallish cars. Well until recently.  Now all new cars appear to be getting larger for some inexplicable reason. Just when there has never been a better reason for saving fuel and space on the roads. It makes no sense.

steven mandell

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2014, 07:27:22 PM »
Perhaps adding a weight limit of something  like 1000 lbs to the displacement limit for being a micro would help separate the macro micros from the bunch.
Couldn't go by length, as last I looked, seemed that my under 200 cc Nobel was longer than the AZ-1 beside it, though it probably weighs just about half as much.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 08:37:01 PM by steven mandell »

Big Al

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2014, 08:00:29 PM »
I would remain pressing the minimalist approach as defining microcar from light car. Its not as simple as size. A recent K class is a small car. It offers most of that which an ordinary car offers. It has to, to sell. My other point. The microcar is practically dead as the buyer wants more than basic transport. Do not confuse bad later design for being a microcar.
 
Maybe what I look at becomes a Classic Microcar? Certainly the American arena is much more open to some larger vehicles we might not agree are Micro. Its a differing market and the enthusiasts started that bit later en masse. So there is quite a following for standard and modified Honda 600 machines, for instance, which is lacking here.

Is a Tiger a microcar? Yes it is for me by dint of its precursors and remaining still minimalist in approach. The engine is really all that takes it away from Micro, and was the point. A Micro sports car. Really, a daft concept, but yet we see it coming forward time and again. The Berkeley in fact tried moving in the opposite direction, without much success. Berk early four wheeler is, to a traditional eye, the prettiest car. It is a miniature AC Ace. However take away tradition.....Goodness there is some bonkers stuff to pick from.
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john Meadows

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2014, 12:04:22 PM »
Hi to everyone, I am catching up on my Forum reading and and pleased to see that Steven Mandel includes the Frisky Sprint on his list of Dream Cars, along with the Zeta Sports Coupe, its close cousin.

He came close to having his wish as there were a few early prototype Zeta Sports with doors, made by Gordon Bedson one was sold at Bruce's sale February 2013, the guy who bought it being totally unaware of what he had bought, he just wanted the engine for his Messerschmidt
I do hope he didn't separate them.

The car introduced at the 1957 Earls Court Show was the FriskySport, the Frisky Sprint was not until  the 1958,  Show where Gordon Bedson and Keith Peckmore were approached by Lightburn and left to join him in Australia the following spring 1959 . Shortly before Frisky went into receivership.

There were no "formalizing of rights" for the Zeta, The Sprint was totally Gordon & Keith  design , (no Michelotti involvement) they could build one blindfold and came close with the Zeta Sport..

The Bug was built in 1957 being the prototype for the Gull Wing, The body that earned it that nickname in the factory was just a temporary one whist Giovanni Michelotti knocked up the real thing .

The Bug was never intended to go into production unlike the Gull Wing which was but unfortunately didn't!

If you are really desperate there's more Frisky Info at www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk

Regards to you all

John.

Grommet

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2014, 07:43:52 PM »
I would love a frisky again but my dad sold ours in the late 60's

My dream car would be a Velocette engined trike similar to the Killeen K17 but with two outboard wheels at the front..

Rob Dobie

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2014, 11:55:21 PM »
If I could go back in time and grab back some of my cars they would be my first Peel P50, the one that I used every day for months. Then the Frisky Family Three that I collected from Newcastle, it went well and my last car in 1976, the Tourette, a lovely frog eyed egg shaped thing.  ;D
Ain't got nuffink now except memories.

Big Al

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Re: Your dream Microcar
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2014, 08:43:55 AM »
If it were not a prototype, and thus made without fully finished suspension parts etc, The Opperman Stirling must be in with a shout if you want a micro sports car.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs