Author Topic: Microcar design faults.  (Read 9677 times)

Big Al

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2014, 06:32:12 PM »
Positives for Heinkel.......?

Isetta owners do not appreciate the finer points so despite its rarity there are still nearly enough to go round to those that do.  :o
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2014, 07:06:45 PM »
WHAT????!!!!!! They don't have braking on the rear wheel?? Is that correct?

Big Al

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2014, 12:52:46 AM »
Its a genuine microcar using minimalist design. Handbrake on the rear, hydraulic in the front. No need for a brake bias and the car is light enough that the surface area of the front brakes is more than adequate. The key thing is to not use the green coloured brake friction material. It is very hard and a more progressive pedal can be had with using a softer grade of friction lining.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2014, 11:36:40 AM »
Like the Nobel then and by extension the Bobette! I actually quite liked using the handbrake with the foot brake when driving the Nobel as the hand book recommended. Felt more in control.

Big Al

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2014, 02:21:31 PM »
Yep. Save the Heinkel has very good brakes. I have never had insufficient brakes to stop, I have had insufficient grip, which is entirely another matter. Cannot say that for my Nobs. But then you drive to cars performance and the Nobs I had were not that nimble either. The Heinkel is, done correctly, as it has a brilliantly simple steering rack and good steering (let down by the suspension/damping). So the speed is governed by the suspension, not brakes or power available, when its all working well. In addition the gearbox is good enough to use a downchange to aid braking/handling by shifting the centre of gravity back as you accelerate out of the corner earlier than not changing down. Here you will find many who disagree as they never had a gear change that was set up correctly nor were prepared to rev the engine as it is designed to be, prefering to plod. Get it wrong and you can easily tip over so its trusting your abbilities as mechanic and driver.  Such a Heinkel would be nipping at the Messerschmitts heels and leaving the Isettas looking for another gear. I know, we proved it on several Story trips and runs through the Harz Mountains. This is not to say an Isetta cannot be driven with spirit but ultimately its great weight prevents it keeping up despite have 50% more volume in the engine. Cruelly shown on hills were the Heinkel is probably the best climber per cc out of the whole microcar group.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2014, 02:47:18 PM »
Yes, Nobel is very underpowered in my view and I know Heinkel /Trojans can have spirited performance. I have driven behind some well sorted ones over the years and the same can be said for a few Isetta's. I remember one of the Stonham barns rallies a while back whilst out on the run in my Schmitt and having trouble keeping up with Barry Yellop in his RHD Isetta plus passenger! He used to drive/ride competitively in his younger years so I don't know if it was his driving skills or a breathed on engine that made it go like that. Another quite lively one was the one Phil Bowler murdered out to you.  Generally as you said Isetta drivers plod , that's the style for me anyway, I would like to live longer! I wouldn't mind giving a Heinkel a serious go at some time but I have come to learn that one project at a time is the way to get em finished.

Big Al

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2014, 07:11:13 PM »
Phils car had poor brakes, which were ATE of course. If not right the ali shoes expanded creating brake fad. I set the wheel alight driving it around Bath. Once I had sorted out the action and friction material it actually stopped! Despite being a 250cc its engine seemed better than the British 300cc. None the less, despite being the best driving Isetta it was not a car I would have zonked about winding miles in. An Isetta is very much a small car not an enclosed bike. 
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2014, 09:22:11 AM »
Yes, I have also heard the old 250 motors were very good.  The girling twin leading shoe system on the British cars is a better braking system though.

Barry

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2014, 09:43:13 AM »
Isetta Girling brakes are very good, especially the extra brake on the back wheel.  Who thought of that idea?  Clearly not Mr. Heinkel, who preferred hand brake turns to actually slowing down.   ;)

Big Al

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2014, 10:08:55 AM »
Heinkel aeroplanes mostly did not have rear brakes. He would not have noticed?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Barry

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2014, 10:19:07 AM »
I think Spitfires did have a back brake - who won the war?    ;D

Bob Purton

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2014, 01:20:32 PM »
Calm down boys!  Remember, the idea of this thread was just to discuss design faults, not to get all tribal and take sides! ;D

Funny you should mention Spitfires, tomorrow I have to collect a dashboard from a Mk2 Spitfire aircraft, that's a model that saw action in WW2 and wait for it, turn it into a coffee table!!
I have agreed to do the job on the strict understanding that I will not drill any holes in it for fixings. I am prepared to use existing holes and also any bullet holes it may have! :D

Big Al

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2014, 03:10:45 PM »
I have a Hurricane lamp!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

AndrewG

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2014, 09:52:56 AM »
I have not just one, but two Wellington boots - a collector, no less.

Barry

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Re: Microcar design faults.
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2014, 10:43:20 AM »
If you had three you would be Jake the Peg - and we know where this thread is going!