Author Topic: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?  (Read 15862 times)

AndyL

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2014, 09:29:23 AM »
If you're going to modify a car in any way, then good sense dictates you should be fully aware of what you are doing, and fully understand the items you are bolting on.

Electronic ignition was given as an example. Without a computer mapped advance curve, electronic ignition offers the following advantages-

Zero maintenance- no contacts to clean and gap.
Some systems will offer a programmable dwell time, this offers some advantage at higher engine speeds.

So the main advantage is to remove the maintenance, which will probably save you twenty minutes annually. Hardly worth the time and expenditure of fitting.

If the unit was coupled to a mapped advance curve, then improvements both in economy and power would be noticed, however that requires a rolling road session and several other sensors, and if you're going to do that you may as well throw fuel injection into the mix too.
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Bob Purton

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 10:04:09 AM »
Hi Andy. I did feel the benefit of a modern ignition system  with my 1957 Moto Morini Tresette, I fitted the MZB powerdynamo and electronic advance curve, the result being that it started easier but performance was about the same.
This wasn't out of choice mind, the original alternator melted and I couldn't find a replacement so this was a quick but not cheap fix.
My view of them on microcars like the Schmitt is based on experiences I was hearing when I was restoring my Schmitt some years back. At the time people who had fitted it were saying it was great while they worked but then would suddenly fail miles away from home and there was nothing anyone could do to fix it at the roadside where as you can change points and condenser in a few minutes. I'm guessing the products available now are much improved.
I cant see the harm in light mods to improve reliability if it is non destructive and doesn't change the appearance of the vehicle. After all we are trying to encourage people to drive the cars as much as possible. 

richard

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2014, 10:12:28 AM »
My approach must suit you then Bob the appearance of my cars , although not as they left factory, has remained pretty much unchanged whilst in my ownership  ;D
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

AndyL

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2014, 11:08:54 AM »
Electronic components are very much more rugged than in days past. For a breakerless system, especially in a micro car where space is tight, hall effect sensor will usually be used in conjunction with a permanent magnet sweeping past. This will sometimes feed into microcontroller for electronic advance, or it can directly switch a transistor to feed the coil if using mechnical advance. The transistors used are generally a special type called an IGBT, which for those unfamiliar stands for Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor. These are designed to present a straightforward load for a low voltage feed (like a Mosfet) from the hall sensor or microcontroller and switch higher voltages safely (like a bipolar transistor) without getting cooked- ideal for an inductive load.

Years ago these components were much lower in spec or weren't automotive graded (automotive grade electrical components have an extended temperature range), so they expired easily. Nowadays components rarely fail unless you have a serious fault like a dead short.
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

AndyL

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2014, 11:59:46 AM »
Little bit of additional reading on ignition coil switching, for those interested- http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/application_note/CD00003911.pdf
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

AndyL

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2014, 04:23:06 PM »
I had a search for the Frankenschmitt. I found some pictures after navigating away from some awful conversion where someone in the States had grafted the front of of DKW onto a KR200 back in the 60's.

It looks like John put a different engine in, not sure what engine it is, but having a guess it's a modified unit from a Goggomobil?
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Bob Purton

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2014, 07:20:47 PM »
No, I think its an 250cc MZ engine he uses.
He also upgraded the brakes to hydraulics using Isetta drums and Goggo back plates.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 07:22:25 PM by Bob Purton »

Big Al

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2014, 09:11:46 PM »
MZ 250 Trophy engine with a Goggo dynostarter mounted instead of a mag. So 5 speed, big gears and more power. Wide rear wheel with sway bar to control the rear deflection from the suspension. Most of the fittings made specially. It sounds much like a Schmitt still.
Hydraulic braking on reworked but original parts. Uprated interior and instruments. There is nothing here that was not available at the end of Schmitt production.

The American Frankenschmitt appeared later on the net, co opting the name. It is bonkers but not remotely as impressive as John's car.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 09:14:48 PM by Big Al »
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

AndyL

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2014, 08:12:33 PM »
Okay, very interesting. In the pictures I could only see a single spark plug, so wondered if there was something else used. Sounds like a good combination of bits.

My Dad owned a KR200 back in the early '60's. He bought it to replace his BSA Bantam, because in his own words he got sick and tired of coming off the thing in the snow and ice. As he could drive the Messerschmitt on  bike license, it was a good choice, and he obtained his car license in it- apparently the examiner was glad to get out of it, so clearly not an enthusiast!  The car was an early 1955 model, originally Black with a red interior. He had bash in it, and after straightening it out he resprayed it gold then blue.



The picture is a frame grab from some 8mm cine film shot in France, where he  toured in the car with a friend and work colleague Peter Green. They took camping equipment and most of their food (in tins!) for a fortnight. Lacking space in the little car, my Dad custom built two side panniers from wood, which you can spot in the shot. They were attached to metal bars which were bolted through the floorpan.

Apparently they got regular inspections from the French plod, who suspected they were up to no good!

Peter Green later went on to purchase his own bubble, a Heinkel 175 and the following year they went further by driving it down to Gibraltar, once again complete with tent and food! This proved a bit of a stretch, my Dad said it seemed like they were forever driving. The Heinkel was turned over into a ditch whilst in Spain, resulting in battery acid burning holes in their tent, a side window popped out which had to be refitted and a bent track rod which wore one of the tyres out, but luckily no harm to the occupants. My Dad is pictured here with the car.



Peter Green got back into bubbles back in the 80's and owned a Trojan (611 T00), but sold it in the early 90's and purchased an MG Magnette.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 08:22:08 PM by AndyL »
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Big Al

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2014, 10:56:00 PM »
Peter Green, a legend among Trienkelnauts.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2014, 10:59:12 PM »
I love the panniers! Nice period pictures. I'm a bit puzzled over what you said about your dad passing his car test in a Schmitt, I didn't think that was possible?  I passed my test in an Isetta and it only gave me a license to drive three wheelers. Mind you that was in 1972.

Big Al

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2014, 07:36:05 AM »
Many years ago when politicians were black and white you could pass your car driving test in a tricycle made for two. In the same way as you could drive it on a bike license with minor mods. Another reason they were popular as it was a logical stepping stone as you earned the money to buy a car after starting out with a bike. Of course you could go with a sidecar combo, but that never could be converted in a test to a car license. Then colour was invented, oh dear!

However I passed my test in 1977 and that gave me the right to drive all the classes on my license today. I have old fogey's rights to drive a locomotive under 12 tons amongst other things, traction engine, Bus with under 12 people in it (if you applied to retain it in time), if I remember right. A few years later Colour was better defined in a revamp of the system, which was changed again and a lot of the odder stuff got removed to separate testing, like the bus bit. The handiest bit I have is the 71/2 tonner and truck and trailer licenses as many younger folk can find themselves driving without a license by overloading their truck or combo including campingvans and trailer. There are some good things about being old.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2014, 08:19:03 AM »
Still doesn't make sense.
I know I did it all wrong. Took my test in the Isetta which gave me full license to drive three wheelers and mopeds only. If I had done a test on my motorcycle it would have entitled me to full motorbike and three wheeler cars so I ended up having to take another test for motorcycles and then later ordinary cars. Bonkers!

Rob Dobie

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2014, 09:53:29 AM »
When I took my first bike driving licence test and passed, (1961), on a 50cc automatic  moped, I could then ride/drive mopeds, motorcycles, single or with a sidecar, any size engine! and bubblecars/threewheelers with the reverse gear blanked off at the gear lever.
Later if you reinstated the reverse gear you could take your full car test in the bubblecar and if passed you could legally drive most vehicles except invalid carriages, road rollers, tracked vehicles, large lorries, articulated or not and public service vehicles. But in those days there wasn't the amount of traffic about.
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Bob Purton

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Re: Anyone on here turbocharged or supercharged a micro or bubble?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 10:05:16 AM »
ah, that's interesting, it was the unbocking of reverse gear that allowed you to take the car test in a three wheeler. I didn't know that.   In that case the laws must have either changed by 1972 or I was cheated somehow. Thanks for that Rob.