Author Topic: Bond bugger  (Read 8617 times)

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Bond bugger
« on: November 01, 2014, 03:51:18 PM »
I thought I was getting to the end of the teething problems with my Mk D, but since the last time it stopped while I was out on a drive, I haven't been able to start it at all. The only thing I could see that was wrong when it stopped, was that there was a small whisker on the plug. I cleaned it, put it back in and nothing. The plug seems to spark ok and fuel gets through ok, and I've now tried a new plug, lead, plug cap, coil, condensor and fuel without any change - when I tested the old coil & condensor there was nothing wrong with them. The Dynastart turns the engine over fine, it looks like a healthy spark at the plug and the fuel gets through fine. I'm assuming somewhere or other there's an electrical issue that's allowing everything to appear hunky dory when it clearly isn't, but I'm not sure what I can test to check this. Anyones help would be very much appreciated.
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

Mark Green

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 04:11:50 PM »
Have you checked the compression? Maybe a sheared key on the crankshaft?
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DaveMiller

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 04:23:37 PM »
A couple of thoughts:

(1) When you say the fuel "gets through fine", do you mean to the carb, or from the carb into the cylinder?  (A wet plug after failed start, or lots of fuel smell in there would suggest the latter is OK.  If not, try both the carb jets for blockage.)

(2) Your spark looks good - but is it at the right timing?  As Mark says, the Woodruff key can suddenly shear (eg on a backfire) and the dynastart then slips round the crankshaft a bit - throwing the timing right out.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 04:25:13 PM by DaveMiller »

Scootacar_mk1

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 04:59:04 PM »
Check the points are sparking. My points slipped a while back and had similar results to what you are seeing.
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plas man

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 08:03:43 PM »
(just a thought - happened to me some time ago on the way home from Chatteris )

is the piston going up and down ? , mine stayed at the top - the piston crown had snapped off around the top ring grove .


Nimrod Cabin

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 08:31:52 PM »
some time ago on the way home from Chatteris ??

Several decades ago you mean since Michal's camp barbecue and Dave Tucker the Fibreglass F...ellow

Yes Malcolm, Bonds seldom fail to start so if your spark is good and at the right time (3/16" before the top of the cylinder) then all should be well. Have you removed the crankcase drain plug for a few seconds to see if anything comes out?? Do not forget to put it back as I didn't once. My Bonds have always started by flooding the carb via the tickler and then starting using full throttle, seldom fails.
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plas man

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 08:28:35 PM »
yes Micheal Porter ,several times stayed at mine ...
said '' he'd never seen a Bond with a factory welded foot well like mine .... they usualy one piece ?
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 12:10:35 AM »
Thanks for all the suggestions chaps. Points are sparking, piston is going up and down and the plug is getting fuel. I've removed the crankcase drain plug and have drained it a couple of times now since I first started trying to fix the bloomin thing. Compression seems to be about the same as it's always been, but I confess I've never measured it and I also haven't checked to see if the Woodruff key has sheared yet or looked to see if all the piston is still attached to the crank. Perhaps I've been lulled into a false sense of security with the timing, it seemed happy to fire up previously regardless of how the points were set, setting them correctly just made it run a whole lot better.
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

DaveMiller

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 09:09:18 AM »
Hi Malcolm

Rule number one:  it is going to start.  Remember that!

DON'T yet disassemble the dynastart to check the woodruff key - far too much like hard work, if the key turned out to be fine.
There's a much simpler way to check, using actions that you need to do anyway:  if the key has sheared, the timing will be way out.
(And if the points plate has slipped, the timing will be slightly out.)

So, with pages 18 and 19 of your Mark D Instruction Book to hand (and apologies here for the granny-sucking, but novices may be reading):

1. Remove points cover and cylinder head.
2. Set points gap (this must be done first).
3. Now, get a decent indication of when the points open (you can't do this very accurately by eye):

Either:  use a test meter, with one lead clipped to earth, and the other to the spring supporting the "moving" point.
The test meter is set on "Ohms" and needs the ignition OFF.  It will show a reading when the points are closed.

Or: use a little 12V bulb in a holder with short lengths of wire. Clip the two wires as above.
The light needs the ignition ON (briefly, while you do the test).  The light will light when the points are open.

4.  Moving the kickstart lever by hand, get the piston to where it's coming up in the cylinder.  As it gets near the top, start watching your test device.  Stop where the meter JUST ceases to show a reading (or the light JUST starts to come on).   This is the position at which the  points open (and spark occurs).

5.  (Turn off the ignition if using light and then:) Measure the distance between the top of the piston and the top of the cylinder.  This should be 7/32" (or 5.5 mm).

If this is different, adjust the timing by slackening and moving the plate which supports the points.  It's a bit "trial and error", as you have to guess the amount of movement, then tighten everything back up, before testing again.

If the timing was so far out that moving the points-plate can't make it correct, then the woodruff key has sheared, and the dynastart rotor has slipped round the crankshaft.  If the timing does come back in range, then fine.
___________

Some final thoughts:  what happened when you tried to start (with the kickstart)?  If you got backfiring, then the spark is working, but at perhaps the wrong time.   (Using the dynastart can disguise that.)

Try it with the points cover off (I've had mine short out the ignition!).
___________

Hope this helps!


Big Al

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2014, 09:21:52 AM »
Difficult to know what to suggest that has not been checked. Air leak? Holed piston, don't think Villiers do that.
Try it with some sniff, Easy Start or such, to see if it kicks.
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 04:59:46 PM »
Thanks again for all this, hopefully I'll get some time to look at it tomorrow or friday and see where we're at.
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

AndyL

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2014, 07:32:28 AM »
Perhaps you shoud get some of this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YndLmbXQ
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Big Al

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2014, 08:00:34 AM »
Its still funny.

Bit like Siba's version of The Prodigy, '-I am the twisted-  Dynostarter'.
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2014, 11:58:07 AM »
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

plas man

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Re: Bond bugger
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2014, 03:37:23 PM »
kick starting saves Siba brush's  ;)


Alan