Author Topic: 13 Ligiers on eBay  (Read 44884 times)

steven mandell

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2014, 01:18:49 PM »
Sold to k***5 for only 1,370 gbp!
I am very dissapointed that you were right this time, Bob about not being able to mount a successful Rumcars team effort.
I thought that I had a team going here, and was willing to pay up to half of what the  final sales price ended up being for just two of the top four cars.
But apparently despite my inability to sleep the entire evening, our captain, who will remain nameless,was asleep at the wheel,  even though provisions for shipping and storage and sales had already been pre arranged, and I had been emailing and calling  frequently in the last several hours to hopefully insure against this.

So if you want something done right do it yourself!
I will remember that for next time. :'(

Meanwhile, if anyone can give me a clue as to whom the winning bidder is and how to contact him, I will be very appreciative.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 01:31:12 PM by steven mandell »

Bob Purton

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2014, 02:10:19 PM »
What makes you think its not one of us that has bought the hoard?

richard

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2014, 02:24:07 PM »
I never actually figured out what you were bringing to the table Steven , surely you only offered to pay over the average rate for the best two cars and some reasonable expenses but surely that's what anyone would want ? Anyway I think they went for a song and wish the buyer well , I do hope they end up on the British micro scene but that we will have to wait to find out . I suspect we won't hear a word until they are relocated and then it may be when some are cleaned up and prepared for individual sale . Meanwhile this is the other C-W liveried one in Coventry museum
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 05:21:38 PM by richard »
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Big Al

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2014, 10:56:33 AM »
Well done someone, or some peeps. No idea who bought, but several interested parties coming in there. The price reached was realistic given the logistical issues, and work needed to present any left over cars to the market for a margin to offset purchase costs. My own calculation suggested that the top value of bid offering effectively free cars to my angle of costings and interested folks was around £2,300. However I was not the bidding agent, the financier of the deal, neither I am fussed over gaining ownership of cars I did know I wanted until they were there, nor doing the entire logistics when I have many other things to do.
Other times might have seen me a more active sniffer. There is a margin to be created with work, and if that is the plan, good luck on receiving the reward for enterprise. Otherwise, if split up betweeen some pre-bidders, we will be tripping over Ligier in a while, if they get sorted onto the road. At sometime a group meeting at Coventry sounds good, to see how the cars have faired, and to view the museums example. Though maybe it might be available in September for the National Rally.

Can we now learn what other cars were possibly available? I would assume those who viewed will have secured anything they wanted, in addition to the end of bids. My gut feeling tells me there were/is some interesting stuff there. Maybe its to early.
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steven mandell

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2014, 04:39:42 PM »
I never actually figured out what you were bringing to the table Steven , surely you only offered to pay over the average rate for the best two cars and some reasonable expenses but surely that's what anyone would want ?

That was indeed my vantage point.
What anyone would want was demonstrably attainable here.

I offered a somewhat higher than fair overpay for my two, so as to motivate others in the group to chime in similarly, and end up with us as a group getting what we wanted for a price that was a true bargain for all of us.

Do the math- if just one other person put their money where their mouth was and offered to pay 1/4 the total sales price for 2 of them, as I promised, at the price that they sold for,we would only have had to scrape up  685 gbp for the remaining 9!

685/9= 76.1 gbp, which is even less than the 80 gbp figure that you ridiculed Bob for hoping to get one for.
Yet as it turns out he could have had a perfect one for very near that money, because as I watched  the last few seconds of the auction, it became obvious that that there was no bidding war going on.

So now we are to applaud the other individual who was willing to put heir money where their mouth was, and will likely sell the lot divided at 300% purchase price for simply collecting them, rinsing off bird poop and offering them for sale.

The point being, that by offering what you so diminutively described as putting up my money for "what anyone would want"- I was enabling other members of this forum to get what they already expressed that they wanted at a significantly better price than I was paying, and for much less than would have been needed to make them happy.

Ever hear of a Win/ Win?

It can only never occur, if you err, make the mistake of assuming some one else's gain is going to preclude you from accomplishing similar, or this case significantly better results.

DaveMiller

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2014, 05:45:09 PM »
> Yet as it turns out he could have had a perfect one for very near that money, because as I watched  the last few seconds of the auction, it became obvious that that there was no bidding war going on. <

So ... er ... if people had joined in with your proposal, Steve, there would have been a bidding war going on.  And the final costs would have been higher, no?  What makes you so confident of your calculated final costs?

steven mandell

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2014, 06:30:10 PM »
The fact that our group, represented by a single bidder, would only have been bidding against just 2 active bidders in the last 10 hours, with only one bid offered by each, and the winning increment being only 20 GBP.
Of course it will never be absolutely knowable without being inside the  winning bidder's head, but still looks to me like a great deal was there to be had- had we united and played our cards well.

richard

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2014, 06:55:01 PM »
"I offered a somewhat higher than fair overpay for my two " - steve but surely that was for the best two ! who would offer the opposite - pay a lower than average price but for the worst two ? i dont think so . i believe there were negotiations that some us were not in on but nevertheless you weren't offering a dealbreaker . As i could see there never was any interest in a group buy and as Dave points out clearly if there had been they would not have sold at that price . You wanted the cream with no effort involved on your part - and i suspect so did a few others  :D
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steven mandell

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2014, 10:36:24 PM »
Two of what was then believed to be a total of 4 in mint condition except for electrical.
As it turned out there were 9 in that condition.
Someone on a tighter budget could well have offered a pittance for the worst two and got them.
If but one other followed my example, and likely be at least as happy about it for having spent likely less than 200 quid for the pair.

I don't know what negotiations that you are referring to, as the seller clearly let the auction run it's course.
Can't see a thread of logic in your reference to a deal breaker.   My whole point was to create a deal maker for anyone else on the Forum that had an interest in obtaining one or more.  If you check the history of this thread you will see that there were several that had already expressed interest in doing so.

You seemed to have missed the most prominent factor of all when you say that if there was interest in a group buy that the price would have been much higher.
that point being that no one except possibly Al with his prior experiences to quell what would havebeen others' fears could have handled a buy of all 13.  Hence nobody was willing to put themselves in the situation of having to handle an extra dozen cars just to get one for them selves.

My good faith effort was designed to overcome this obstacle for the benefit of all that wanted in, but could not afford to get stuck with either the cost or logistics of handling the rest.

My effort is commensurate with my input, wether it be hard earned cash or trying to cajole a few members to follow my example and put their money where there mouth was.
If the naysayers instead tried to promote the positive possibilities, we would have at least several happier Rumcarers  by now.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 10:38:13 PM by steven mandell »

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2014, 11:25:53 PM »
Sooooooo I drove half hour the wrong way to pick up a flat bed truck with a winch then back past my house all the way to Peterborough , ended up being a 2 hour drive and a disappointed 2 hour drive back ! The new owner is a nice bloke but has put all the cars bar 1 in his garden , to do that he had to dismantle a door, drag the  non rolling cars through the new hole in the wall into the garden then reassemble the door , because they are now out side the cars with smashed glass ( which is most of them ) had the seats and electric boards taken out and stored inside . I couldn't get to the car I wanted as it was to much of a mission to get out at the moment , the "good" car that was kept out for me to buy was not a good car , corner glass smashed , rusted door , doesn't roll , rear shelf that holds the circuit board was badly rotten but repairable , same with the bottom subframe mounts , the front was mostly ok and steering was ok , I can imagine all the cars being like this in some way even though they look perfect from outside , none of the cars have chassis plates that they've found yet and I had a really good look to, 8 number plates came with the cars but no paperwork , numbers are all current with dvla , the car was offered to me for about £200 at the end , after being told the good ones are £400- £500 , you can't buy anything for 200 quid nowadays but even then I just couldn't see it worth that , perhaps i just don't like them as much as I thought because I've bought some crap in my time for a lot more , I'm glad I didn't buy them all in the end but I'm sure someone will be happy with one . But as I say the owner is a nice bloke and said I can pass his number on to any one interested

DaveMiller

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2014, 11:27:23 PM »
> You seemed to have missed the most prominent factor of all when you say that if there was interest in a group buy that the price would have been much higher.
that point being that no one except possibly Al with his prior experiences to quell what would havebeen others' fears could have handled a buy of all 13.  Hence nobody was willing to put themselves in the situation of having to handle an extra dozen cars just to get one for them selves. <

That point is clear, Steve.  My point, though, perhaps missed you.  I'll ask you  v e r y  s l o w l y, then:

If the group you had proposed had proceeded to bid, it would have had to bid higher than what turned out to be the finishing price. And the person who had made that bid would perhaps have bid again.  There would now have been two bidders in contest.  You seem to know how high that would have run, and we're wondering how you know that. 

You could be certain that the bids would only go slightly higher if you, and your proposed group, had agreed a final bid only slighly higher - but that might merely mean that you still didn't have the cars, and the final purchaser still did, but at slightly higher cost.

That's the way auctions work, isn't it?  We narrowly miss out, and then wish we'd bid that bit more - but never know whether that extra bid would have worked!

steven mandell

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2014, 01:42:54 AM »

That's the way auctions work, isn't it?  We narrowly miss out, and then wish we'd bid that bit more - but never know whether that extra bid would have worked!
Your point was already conceded to in my previous responce.
But with nobody on our side bidding at a realistic level, we sure as he'll can never say we gave it our best try to find out!
My money would still be bet on the fact that we would have been able to get them for a price that all would have been happy to pay.

Double thanks to Steve Fisk for once again embarrassing us all with his actions speaking louder than his modest words, and his willingness to put the group's interest at a priority level as high as his own.

richard

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2014, 07:25:49 AM »
Just checked the history of the thread and can find no signs of anyone ever expressing much of an interest in a group bid except Steven I think . My point way back at the bottom of page 2 may have been on the mark I think
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 09:02:39 AM by richard »
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Bob Purton

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2014, 09:15:22 AM »
I think its my fault for saying, mainly in jest that we could all chip in for one. These sans  permis cars dont really interest me.
I'm told they are coming back on ebay individually soon so Steven can do his own bidding and being as they are of no national heritage interest I dare say one of us would help him get one down to the container port.

steven mandell

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Re: 13 Ligiers on eBay
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2014, 09:35:28 AM »

I don't know what negotiations that you are referring to, as the seller clearly let the auction run it's course.
Can't see a thread of logic in your reference to a deal breaker.   My whole point was to create a deal maker for anyone else on the Forum that had an interest in obtaining one or more.  If you check the history of this thread you will see that there were several members that had already expressed their interest in doing so.
Richard, if  you examine my text more carefully, you will see that I never asserted other members expressing any interest in a group buy, however responces #: 4, 11, 15, 17 and 20 do.

Time for another eye exam as it seems that you are growing increasingly  short sighted. :D