Author Topic: Register and archive. Purpose and future.  (Read 9776 times)

Big Al

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Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« on: February 05, 2015, 08:57:51 PM »
Its a new one on me! I wonder if Jean has any knowledge of it?
Regarding putting it on the register, the register is to record actual surviving cars so at this stage it would not be appropriate but let hope it turns up somewhere.
Thanks very much for posting. Most interesting.

Eh? So one off cars do not go into a recorded file, so that details of them can be immediately referenced? That is lost people not being listed as either dead or alive. After a while they get forgotten, and no on looks for them. The effedct is that such things remain un-found. Still what do I know.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 10:42:48 PM »
You may be right Al but that's how I understood it anyway.
Otherwise if this is not the case could I register a car that I scrapped in 1968? I dont thinks so. The idea of the register is to keep track of where the cars are. So registering a car that may not exist? Can you see why I came to that conclusion.

Having infomation in a file is not the same as the register of cars. Of course it would be good for anything known about the Swift to be put on file.
 

Big Al

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2015, 11:07:41 PM »
Most registers do register scrap vehicles. It might be gone, but its a record, and it helps date all the other cars, by using its remaining information as facts. How else can you date, with any accuracy, low volume cars for which no other records exist. Its just a known dead record, as opposed to a known live one. As an entity aiding the issue of Registration and other documents most registers would actually be failing in their obligation to the State system they support to record such information. Then RUM is not an ordinary Register.

I rather like this Swift. It would seem it was to late into the field. Looks a bit Villiers 3Tish to me, but could be a 250cc. Not quite sure I am understanding the rear drive. Is there a diff? Its Brutsch meets Heinkel on steroids.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Barry

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 07:22:41 AM »
Wit respect, you seem to contradict yourself sometimes Al.

I have a register / index of photos which now includes the swift.  (under 'S')

Excerpt:-
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/42kcn6t1j2htsba/AACd9BeLsb69GbVRqt6Ku0xja?dl=0

In the past you have been bitterly opposed to this idea because of 'identity theft, cloning' etc. 
'you can find all this information on Google if you need to'.

I think the RUMCar register should concentrate on surviving cars with another record of general microcars supporting it.
Otherwise, the RUMCars register will be large and unmanageable, diluted by lost prototypes and vehicles that do not exist.


Chris Thomas

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 08:16:49 AM »
Dear All

The Rumcar Archive is where information on microcars that may not be registered and are historically interesting are kept in paper format. It does not have a digital side, so unless the original photographs of the swift are sent in to the archive it will not be filed.

Chris Thomas

Bob Purton

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 08:28:45 AM »
The archive. That's the word I was looking for. Thanks Chris.

Big Al

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 08:35:39 AM »
No contradiction. David Dale chose to supply information in the hope of getting a few answers. The requires and deserves a response in line with the value of the information flow required. The pictures are excellent. It would seem valuable info as no one has any knowledge of the car. Those who research such things have something to find. He, and others, have chosen to put there facts before a public medium. Why am I not entitled to enjoy looking at this stuff, even if I point out certain problem connected with it. It is my choice not to, though some of the old pictures might get published once I have gone through them. I think you might struggle to steal this identity plate for re use.

I thought that RUM might do more than feast on finds. I think it means to, even if it is much is in the form of pages from editions of the Newsletter. Such solid and well illustrated evidence for an unknown and missing car as the SWift requires to be logged into some sort of file of missing machinery. Otherwise quick identification is not as easy, and irreplaceable remains might get lost for ever. Such wreckage should be saved, but its not always easy to accomplish this, as I have found out over the years digging out all sorts of mouldering cars. As you know I get quite annoyed if all the effort comes to nothing, recently the Powerdrive thread came up. As it happens, vandalised to parts only. I am still a bit miffed about it, but not with Grant anymore.

Anyway I do not run things and this is not getting the Swift any further forward. Not time to look up much in the next few days. A lot going on. But this is the sort of oddity I would happily own.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2015, 08:48:29 AM »
Why do you assume it wont be researched? If I know Chris and Jean there will be a new file opened already and contact being made with Mr Dale with a view to doing some digging. The best way to find out what has happen to a vehicle is to put it in the public domain such as a forum like this and maybe an article in RCN.

Big Al

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 08:49:57 AM »
Dear All

The Rumcar Archive is where information on microcars that may not be registered and are historically interesting are kept in paper format. It does not have a digital side, so unless the original photographs of the swift are sent in to the archive it will not be filed.

Chris Thomas

Oh dear, Sounds like a further reason for an independent encyclopaedia of microcars. Might get together with Root on that one once I have myself more time. Can publish under the ICR banner as it has a publisher ready.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Big Al

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2015, 08:56:39 AM »
Where did I say that? I think I said that it would give researchers a target. Yep, there it is.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 01:44:49 PM »
Quote.
"Such solid and well illustrated evidence for an unknown and missing car as the SWift requires to be logged into some sort of file of missing machinery."


I'm sure it will.

AndyL

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2015, 05:14:21 PM »
Very interesting.

Wonder why they went for de dion suspension at the back?
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Alastair

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2015, 09:03:06 AM »
This posting would seem to have generated a lot of heat but little in the way of light. First of all I'd like to thank David for his posting and the excellent photographs he has provided. Some seem to have taken the time to examine the photos and appreciate the engineering involved while others have chosen to argue about what RUM should be doing with the information.
As Registrar perhaps I should put the record straight as to how I believe information like this should be handled. First of all it cannot be "registered" as there are no identifying features such as a unique chassis number, engine number or registration number that would differentiate this car from any other car and no information has been brought forward to suggest that the vehicle survives in either built or dismantled condition. If a vehicle is to be added to the Register it needs to be identifiable as a particular car rather than simply a model of a particular make . If at any point in the future a vehicle were to be registered with any of the same identifying marks it would be immediately flagged up and we may then have an indication of the fate of the original vehicle. The Register can and does contain information on vehicles that no longer exist but at the time of their registration they most certainly did.
Jean maintains the RUM archive which contains original source material for use by future researchers. The existence of a previously unknown make of microcar is not something that goes unnoticed and readers can be assured that it will be followed up to ensure that all available information is collected and stored in the archive.
I hope I have made it clear the differences between an archive and a Register.

Alastair     

DaveMiller

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2015, 09:25:58 AM »
Beautifully put, and very clear, Alastair!

Big Al

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Re: Register and archive. Purpose and future.
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2015, 09:30:48 AM »
What happens when the owner does not wish to part with his original information? If my dad made a car I would want to keep all the info on it. Like I have for the aircraft work he held records of, from Tempest through to Concord. I am all for archives, but its recording the gaps that makes the records useful, see regimental records. Wonderful archives but by no means complete in many cases. Therefore info is stored that is 'unofficial' or 'awaiting confirmation'. Some of that is in the form of interviews before the knowledge dies with the person who knew about it. Seems obvious to me, but whatever.

I have made a preliminary sweep of the topic and come up with no really good leads. Very tenuous is we are back into aircraft. Here the company was a CRO. Bedson flirted with many aircraft companies but seemed unsettled in employment. Someone commented on the Zeta look of the suspension on the Swift. Was this Bedson throwing the dice to get his existing work into use through friend, or contact, at Southern Aircraft? Did he have dealings with Mr Cuxon?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs