Author Topic: washers and wipers  (Read 8995 times)

Bob Purton

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washers and wipers
« on: March 05, 2015, 09:50:05 AM »
As the subject of screen washers has come up on another thread I thought I would start a separate discussion.

Question.... What are the legal requirements regarding washers on cars that were not originally fitted with them?

Question.... Hand operated wipers. If a car was originally fitted with electric wipers , would the later substituting of them with a hand operated wiper system be illegal? A weird question I know but this one has an impact on something I'm working on


Question, What about cars with perspex windscreen? Must they have wipers?

AndyL

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 10:00:46 AM »
That's a discussion that recently came up on an Isetta Facebook page.

If the car requires an MOT, then unless the windscreen is removeable in some way and had wipers fitted as standard, then you must have washers for it to get a valid MOT. Even a squeezy bottle jury rigged up with a hose routed to the screen suffices.
Many years ago I recall one Isetta owner who managed to convince an MOT tester his Isetta had a removable windscreen, as it moved with the door. I think that's pushing it a bit though.

Some windscreens are exempt. Very small windscreens e.g. fly screens don't require wipers and washers. A good modern example is the new Morgan three wheeler. It's considered you can peep over these if required, so even if soiled you should still be able to see the road ahead clearly.

Personally I think a washers are a sensible addition if you're planning on using the car a lot on the road.

Can't recall any law about how wipers are powered, so hand worked items should be fine, so long as they can clear the screen adequately.
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Bob Purton

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 10:36:34 AM »
Hmmm, that is food for thought as my windscreen is removable by six screws.

Big Al

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 11:07:04 AM »
I do not think the MOT specifies how the wipers are powered. If they did Ford Pops would be off the road! They need to work and leave the screen clear to see through. That is where plastic screens fail. Unless it is a wind defector -wind screen, clue was in the name, before the screen became a fixed ancillary, it will have to have an effective method to keep it clear. So a Messerschmitt sport does not have a windscreen. Its a wind deflector. So is a Brooklands style aeroscreen. A folding screen should get away with it too, but that is mostly Classic car territory and some are used in conjunction with Brooklands screens.

One of the few back dated rules is, if it has wipers, it has to have washers. But washers can be pipped down the wiper blade and not be that visible. On Schmitts some of us are in the habit of mounting the washer through the top right headlight adjusting mount bolt hole. Its virtually invisible, no extra holes. A Tunnock Teacake for the owner of every car where the tester squirts himself.
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Barry

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 11:09:09 AM »
A piece of string going out of the drivers side and back-in through the passengers side, attached to a wiper blade - in a loop' works quite well and can be operated by either left or right hand (or the passenger).  ...Officer :)

Big Al

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 11:12:37 AM »
Where is a happy dog when you need one? The Boshton Terrier, possibly.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 11:39:24 AM »
"A Tunnocks Teacake for the owner of every car where the tester squirts himself"
Yep, done that, where do I collect my tea cake?

You may have guessed this question is in connection with Tourettes [not the disease!]
The cars had a ghastly wiper set up! A complete  wiper mechanism from a Standard 8 or 10 is under the dash and crudely bonded to the body. Worst still the shaft protrudes through the bodywork exactly in the line where the screen frame seal joins the main body thus ensuring that rain water is certain to come gushing through when driving in the raid. Its all very Heath Robinson.. What with the screen surround its self being a terrible fit, you can see why I'm going my own way here cant you.

richard

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 12:47:04 PM »
Been there done that with the string in one window out the other . One night out at Bath Rally Mike shepherd and I took a trip into Bath in a Bond B and it poured down and the wiper failed. Bob you could do it the Gordon way  ;) the wiper is at the top and through the screen surround
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

richard

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 12:48:57 PM »
Always good fun to set the squirters to the pavement when doing a parade through the streets - oh how we laughed  ;D
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Big Al

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 01:05:14 PM »
Sounds odd. Surely a arm on the wiper spindle and a link to the motor solves a poor positional problem. Common enough and if the motor is hidden, who knows.
I would like one of those spinning discs they have on boats. No wiper needed. Unless its a pentigraphic wiper. Oooo!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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Stuart Cyphus

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 01:13:52 PM »
 If you can easily see round or over the windscreen without moving your body more than a few degrees either way from vertical, then no washer or wiper is legally necessary. Basically read this as if you can move only your head & neck & see perfectly round & over the screen and still keep hands & feet properly on the controls, then you're ok.

Bob Purton

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 04:43:10 PM »
Been there done that with the string in one window out the other . One night out at Bath Rally Mike shepherd and I took a trip into Bath in a Bond B and it poured down and the wiper failed. Bob you could do it the Gordon way  ;) the wiper is at the top and through the screen surround
Well yes, I plan to put the shaft through the lower screen frame/panel in one corner.
Here is a pic of the original shaft position. Then the Bobette screen frame with space at the bottom corners for a new position. I think a motor will foul the dash board even if turned upside down.

Big Al

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 05:36:40 PM »
Took a wshile to work out what was going on here. It two different vehicles.

So on the original they managed leave no obvious place to put the wiper. It could possibly just take a unit from a goggo with its link bar. The coupe does this from inside, the saloon outside. The advantage is it was assumed if you got into difficulty you unlimbered the rod to power only the drivers wiper, in snow for instance. By adjusting the rod you cam aim the wiper inboard a bit in there sweep. Untidy when parked. What is really wanted is semaphore wipers, which are handed and park in the middle. That moves the two shafts toward the outside of the screen. Have not the makings of that but somewhere I have NOS period style Simca wiper motors with a lever and ball fitting that would make the basis of such a system.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2015, 06:10:48 PM »
This is what it says in the msva manual not much really

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: washers and wipers
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2015, 06:26:30 PM »
What's the top of the screen like bob ? Does it need an mot or exempt ?