Author Topic: Peel Trident Steering  (Read 6308 times)

Michael

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Peel Trident Steering
« on: March 07, 2015, 01:01:24 PM »
Is the steering box on a Peel Trident Specific to Peel?

Been googling and not found any similar.
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Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 02:00:21 PM »
Hello mate just use the same one I've used on my p50 , off a sand rail buggy rack and pinion set up

Michael

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 04:24:00 PM »
Brilliant.
Looked at Internet and seen your one, but will have to use a shorter track rod on the drivers side as the steering column is not in a central position.
Locost self build car.
3 Mk1 Raleigh Choppers, 2 Mk2 Raleigh Choppers
Mk2 Raleigh Chopper Tandem
Sinclair C5 Restored
Austin J40 Pedal Car to restore
Peel Trident Replica to build

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 06:30:57 PM »
I made mine , use the spline part straight from the steering wheel , then only use one side of the steering box to push a tie bar which connects the to front wheels , if you try and use a steering box but just offset it, the drivers side track rod will only end up being about 2" long and it starts to hit on things , I've not done it but it's just the way I've planned it in my head

steven mandell

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 10:58:18 AM »
I am no suspension expert, but with the greater change of track length engendered  by the Peel's swing arm type front suspension- wouldn't your tie bar cause major changes of toe with wheel travel?
I believe that in more conventional set ups the aim is to get the inner ball joint of the steering arms to pivot along a vertical axis that is as close as possible to a roughly vertical line that connects the inner pivot points of the upper and lower swing arms so as to minimize this problem.
Of course the more that you turn your steering  wheel, the less ideal the steering geometry becomes, as the inner pivots of the steering arms necessarily move right or left of this axis, but I believe it is still the closest we can get to an ideal design geometry, and therefore should be strived for.

I haven't designed mine yet, but will obviously keep this consideration in mind.

One of my ideas I'd really like to try, is to mount the box/ rack centrally, and steer from a centrally seated position when riding lone.  This would give perfect right vs. left weight balance for a vehicle where the driver weight can easily exceed the weight of the entire vehicle, and thus result in more symmetrical, predictable,  and safe handling, as well as reduce the risk of imminent tip over.  It would also give more elbow room when riding singly, and thus allow for greater symmetry of lattitude for the driver to assist handling by being enabled to lean/ displace his upper body laterally during cornering.
Not yet finalized all details about how to get the steering wheel and pedals to easily slide to a side upon accepting a passenger, but I do like the fact that in most cases the width of the passenger will be fairly proportionate to their weight, so in general,  the amount that the driver needs to  slide over will automatically preserve the right left balance of the overall package.
Incidentally the amount of slide over required, and consequent horizontal travel needed in both steering wheel and pedal locations should only be about 1/2 of one's body width (about 8"?), so the deed seems doable.

Other than some isetta like universal joints on the steering shaft, and a track, or pivoted mounting for the cable actuated pedal assembly, I don't yet have a finalized design worked out.
I don't think that the slight shortening  in length of the steering column caused by sliding the wheel this far off center is anatomically significant, although a sliding spline could correct for this if needed.

Engineering  proposals graciously accepted on the condition that other forum members promise not to  subject said authors to cheap shots regarding the dimensions of their gluteal masses. ;)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 11:44:37 AM by steven mandell »

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 01:04:29 PM »
I don't really see the need for suspension travel on it just a bit of give in the tires and a rubber mount , so the swing arms won't move much any way so not needed as original, a three wheel go kart will handle better with no suspension that's the kind of idea , I've seen one with springs and it felt like it would handle like a boat when I push on the front wing , but with out driving them both who knows

steven mandell

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 04:21:57 PM »
You're right, a lack of appreciable suspension travel obviates/ dodges the problem, but at the cost of reduced compliance over bumps.  If you pretty much confine your travels to shows and parking lots, and newly paved streets no problem.
Have you yet taken your P50 for any significant distance on your local roads yet?
If so, what was the ride and handling like?

I have found a set of fairly stiff, but perfectly sized spring- shock units that I intend to employ for weighing  good handling over softness of ride- like a proper sports car.

Dick Tuttle from northern California has installed soft riding modern scooter shocks and springs, uses an 85 cc water cooled Yamaha enduro motor with manual trans, and drives his on public streets up to 60 mph.
This may be faster than even I choose to go when mine is finally equipped with double A arm suspension 6" wheels and tires, and a two stroke engine of approximately twice his engine's displacement and power.


Any ideas from your  inventive brain on how to achieve my 8" slide of steering wheel and pedals with so little fuss as to not discourage me from taking on sub 200 pound passengers yet?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 04:41:36 PM by steven mandell »

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2015, 06:37:24 PM »
I've only been around a car park and shows , i didn't think it was stupidity bad handling, maybe the seat had a bit of give to it , but it could easily be turned over , the trident seems to have a wider front to it so it will handle better , I would really like to see pictures of Dick  Tuttles one , I just can't see the benefit in having springs on the front , I see the back deff needs springs, if your brave enough to hit a speed bump at 15-20mph with springs I think it will bottom out , the ground clearance only ends up being a couple of inches , in the back of a trident you could fit a 250cc engine and wheel in there if you think it's needed but 50cc is fine for just a bit of fun , explain this 8" slide steering im confused

steven mandell

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 07:15:17 PM »
Dick's car is original except for engine, dome, and some instrumentation.
It looks perfectly stock, and as good as new, but it is considerably better in the ride and performance departments.
Even with his very soft scooter springs he says he does not have bottoming out issues.

I have attached a picture of my perfectly sized but much stiffer spring/ shock unit.

Try rereading my post over a cup of tea, and you might catch my intent to make it function as a central driving positioned single seater, unless carrying a passenger.
Thus the requirement of making the steering wheel and pedal assembly slide from a center mounting back  to the standard offset to fit them into the stock driver and passenger configuration.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 07:19:00 PM by steven mandell »

Michael

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 07:58:17 PM »
I like the idea of the original steering box.

I see Andy Carter's replica shell has a version of the original (unless it is an original steering box)

I have tried to find suppliers or a version of it, but no luck.

I assume it is a steering box as it looks like it has input at the one from the column and I'd guess a screw gear inside and the side output to the link rod.
Locost self build car.
3 Mk1 Raleigh Choppers, 2 Mk2 Raleigh Choppers
Mk2 Raleigh Chopper Tandem
Sinclair C5 Restored
Austin J40 Pedal Car to restore
Peel Trident Replica to build

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 09:16:02 PM »
I will have a think about it , it's a similar idea to how steering wheels go up and down in today's cars but the other way , here's a couple of pictures on Google

Michael

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 08:16:32 PM »
Yes got both of those saved. I just wondered where you can get that steering box from.

When the canopy is raised does the colum slide through the dash panel or is it fixed?
Locost self build car.
3 Mk1 Raleigh Choppers, 2 Mk2 Raleigh Choppers
Mk2 Raleigh Chopper Tandem
Sinclair C5 Restored
Austin J40 Pedal Car to restore
Peel Trident Replica to build

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 10:07:16 PM »
It kind of slides through , I'm not sure on the steering box , im going to use this steering box turned on its side so it turns in to a push and pull on one track rod , it should act the same as original

Grommet

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2015, 11:17:33 PM »
Hi

The original box is chain driven which makes the offset simpler, I fabricated one for my Trident project.. it took some time but was very satisfying.. Here is pic or 2






You can cee the chain tension adjuster on the rear end
Grommet
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 11:30:24 PM by Grommet »

Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel Trident Steering
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2015, 10:01:15 AM »
That is seriously good , that looks like it was pressed ? Have you got any pictures of the internals ?