Author Topic: Banned from the Roads? and other questions  (Read 3525 times)

Vintage Mark

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Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« on: June 18, 2015, 11:10:42 AM »
Good Morning everyone,

By way of introduction my name is Mark, I live in Derby and these days I'm known as Vintage Mark because of the old music I play in pubs etc. on my "All Electric Travelling Pub Piano"  (link: www.info-today.co.uk  ).      I'm now in my sixties and I've always been interested in microcars (owned a Coronet and a Bond Mk C in the 1960s) and also vintage cars and aircraft.  Until recently I flew vintage aircraft for a living (my third career) even though I am a full-time wheelchair user (link: www.markspeaking.com).

Now, with no vintage vehicles other than the Sinclair C5 I've had for 30 years, I am seriously considering an Invalid Carriage especially if I can eventually find something like an electric Tippen.      Hence my following questions to this forum's members who obviously know a lot more about Invalid Carriages than I do.

My first question is about how to use an invalid carriage legally on the road.    Were they really banned as a road vehicle?    As I understand it, that would require the Secretary of State of the day to produce a Statutory Instrument (S.I.) to enact that.   If there is such a S.I. can anyone refer me to it?

However, "Invalid Carriage" doesn't seem to be one of the vehicle groups available on driving licences now as far as I can see from the DVLA website.    That suggests (to me) that any invalid carriage would now be licenced as an ordinary vehicle with the appropriate tax class of Private, Electric, or Disabled.    The "Disabled" tax class is only available to people who qualify for the higher rate mobility component and is not determined by the vehicle type.

So, can Invalid Carriages still be legally driven on the roads? and if so, are there any legal difficulties?     If anyone has achieved this, how easy / expensive is the Insurance?

The other interesting thing that I believe I have understood from the DVLA website is that restrictions can be put on a licence (such as can only drive a vehicle fitted with hand controls)  but there isn't a restriction code that prevents anyone driving a vehicle fitted with hand controls.   i.e.  there doesn't seem to be a code for "can only drive a vehicle with foot controls"     In other words, my understanding is that anyone with a full licence could legally drive an invalid carriage.

Have I got this right?

Any help or links to the correct legislation would be appreciated.       

I have a soft spot for electric vehicles as I have built / developed / owned / driven electric vehicles for most of my life, so to obtain something like the electric version of the Tippen Delta would be the icing on the cake for me.   

If you've read this far....many thanks!

Mark 

Jean

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 11:32:49 AM »
Hi Mark, The expert on Invalid Carriages is Stuart Cyphus, I am sure he would be able to answer all of your questions, he runs the Invalid Carriage Register (or ICR) and keeps a mass of archive material on them. He is a member of this forum and can be found by name on the membership list.
Jean
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Big Al

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 12:06:19 PM »
That is asking for a work akin to a degree paper. In my experience DVLA and its co organisations do not really know what they are doing with some of these vehicles that they have failed to pigeon hole. So there is not a single answer. Bung in differing power units, and such, and you have a very complex question.

Electric cars I know next to nothing about. I would expect the law to change soon, when the next big electric idea, that will not work, comes along with a finance package of inducements.

Licensing starts from what your licensed for now. I have full old fogey rights and can drive pretty much anything, other than some heavy or loaded machines, certain tracked stuff and forklifts. Modern licenses will require additional tests for some categories. Its up to you to ensure your covered and you plastic card does not always cover all the classes you can drive, if you over a certain age. You need to claim them, some in good time. Thus I retain the right to drive a bus with people in it, most lost that, as they missed the voiding date.

Classic ICE IC get registered as Historic Cars. So they are treated like early Reliants or Bond Bugs. Because DVLA are confused mine is still a IC, though, and I have not bothered to change it. I am told that they actually do not conform to the current regulations as to what is a vehicle to be driven by the disabled. In effect they are IC which cannot be IC anymore. But then that would only be true if they are re registered - thus subject to the law of the re registered/new vehicles. Most Type 70 are regaining their original ID, so unless DVLA mark them as other than IC, they must still be an IC. But as an IC they used to have to have a tax disc. That has been scrapped, so whoopy do. I can just drive it.

All the above could be wrong, though. See what the others say.

 
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Vintage Mark

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 02:25:22 PM »
Wow, Thanks for the rapid replies.

Jean,   Thanks for the tip.   I've asked Stuart and got a rapid, comprehensive and very satisfying reply -  What a powerful tool the internet is!

Big Al,   Thanks for the reply.   I understand the point about large Gov. organisations and how they react to enquiries, hence trying to get the info from other's experiences.    In my experience the trick is to always leave them a way out so that they don't have to say you can't do something.   Once they have said that, it can be very difficult to change their minds.

Licencing isn't a problem for me as I passed the first driving test nearly fifty years ago and have passed several since, although I haven't renewed my HGV 1 and PSV 1, (sorry C+E and D+ E) this time.   I started off with microcars, and vintage Austin Sevens were a similar size, so looks like I'm coming full-circle and back to them.


richard

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 06:41:49 PM »
Watch out or you will be back to a pram  ;D any lack of further response would only be through lack of knowledge on the matter , maybe Barry could add something ?  but otherwise that covers most with the experience on these things - good luck  ;)
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Barry

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 08:13:05 PM »
Reply by phone so it will be brief.
If your not disabled you can't drive an IC which is registered disabled vehicle. I think.
My model 70 was MOT'D and then registered as a trike. My insurance was very cheap through Peter James. Once they saw a picture of one on the Internet, they were happy to add it to my existing classic insurance for £15 administration.   

Vintage Mark

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 07:45:18 PM »
Well I hadn't planned on the full-circle taking me back quite that far Richard.    In fact I can't remember ever having a pram or childs pushchair, but then I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, so that isn't a surprise.

Thanks for the info Barry.    Sounds like Invalid Carriages don't frighten the insurance companies, so that is good news.     I think I would qualify as disabled as my car is taxed in that class, and I'm a full-time wheelchair user, so perhaps I've (at last) found an advantage if being disabled means there would be less paperwork! 

My ultimate goal would be to obtain something like an electric Tippen, but might have to settle for a petrol IC in the meantime.    I find electric vehicles much easier to work on, and have plenty of experience with battery cars, and other electric vehicles.   Also, I just find electrics more interesting.

Thanks for the replies.

Big Al

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 08:07:40 PM »
Electric ones are cheaper, as a rule.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Barry

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2015, 10:29:21 PM »

Vintage Mark

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 03:21:55 PM »
Barry, many thanks for the link to Option 1.   Unfortunately the listing seems to have ended, but have sent them a message to ask if that is just because it has "timed out".   Advertised price seems a bit optimistic to me - does it to you?

Thanks also for Option 2, but that isn't really my style.  In fact it is not even slightly my style !   All my everyday electric wheelchairs are more  compact, manoeuvrable, and more elegant than that scooter (and have better performance since I modify them for my needs).    However, they are for everyday use and have automatic lock-downs to allow me to drive my (very modified) car while sat in them.       

What I am looking for is more of a conventional invalid carriage, and I've always preferred electric vehicles.   However, I don't completely rule out petrol propulsion although it isn't my strongest skill.   

Many thanks for the link !   

Barry

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 09:26:13 PM »
Very optimistic I think Mark.  They are few and far between and as Al always says. 'The market will determine the price'  but Invalid carriages are still not that popular.

Some photos that I have collected.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ytm8vwfh0o7ztxv/AAD0PBcGnNT8HcRTGN2Nam1Da?dl=0


As for my Green Braune mobility scooter, just toung in cheek really.  there is a lot of that on the forum but in truth, many are just jealous that I have one  ;D


Vintage Mark

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Re: Banned from the Roads? and other questions
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2015, 05:40:40 PM »
That's great Barry.   Thank you for sharing your dropbox with me.   All very interesting.

Thanks also for the confirmation that the price was very optimistic for the linked vehicle.   
To me the decimal point is in the wrong place, so I suspect they'll never see a buyer at that price.