Author Topic: Wheelerdealers KR200  (Read 6366 times)

AndyL

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Wheelerdealers KR200
« on: August 06, 2015, 10:20:42 AM »
Seems they've done a KR200 (guess the Isetta was popular with viewers). Up for sale for a whisker shy of  £25K, woosh!

Looks like a nice job, although I don't think it's quite how they came out of the factory.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Messerschmitt-KR200-1957-/321817884059?hash=item4aedd7359b

1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

AndyL

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2015, 10:58:09 AM »
I quite like it personally. Then again I've always liked customs as much as restored vehicles.
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

marcus

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2015, 11:18:34 AM »
I too like it, but sad that TV always has to go "better than new", and always wonder if cosmetics have been dealt with more than structural and longevity issues...is the beauty just skin deep?
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2015, 12:21:30 PM »
I think the KR200 responds rather better to this sort of rock & roll customisation than almost any other microcar would (including other Schmitts) and clearly, both in price and finish, Wheeler Dealers have aimed it at someone enthused by the retro look rather than someone entirely focussed on how-it-left-the-factory originality. If it's finished as well as most of the other cars that they've restored, it's a bargain compared to several of the Bruce Weiner Schmitts!
Malcolm
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Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

AndyL

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 12:59:26 PM »
I've always liked KR200's. Was never much of a fan of the kR175, thought it was a bit crude, and not mad about the Tiger either, as I thought the lines got a bit screwed up with that extra wheel.

They were always a bit beyond reach price wise, and like many things in the micro car community, you needed to know the right people to find good cars at sensible prices. I found the Messerschmitt scene impenetrable, and that somewhat put me off owning one.
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Big Al

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 03:57:22 PM »
But which model was it when it started? Not much that is not an optional extra there. But the interior is a botch, wrong, and looks awful. Of course if I researched it I might pull it to bits but as a restoration it passes muster.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 08:19:18 PM »
Does it matter? We've already said its a custom job and that interior looks much better than most KR200's. I think its safe to assume they didn't start off with anything special.
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

plas man

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 08:36:21 PM »
I wonder how long it will last without been trailered   :o

AndyL

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2015, 09:05:24 PM »
Can you get radials for schmitts?
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Big Al

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 09:09:47 AM »
I am not sure I can see much in the way of custom parts. If the car is an early de lux, then it will have two tone paintwork, thus. It would more than likely have extras like eyelashes, additional end trimings, clock and so on. Portholes were an extra. The first 6 months of cars did not have torpedo lights, even then they had klienschnittger lights first, before going to the torpedo light. The wheel trims are Roadster, technically wrong if its an early car, but as a retro fit, why not. Its not an early dome, but you cannot buy them.

Early cars did have brown interior, with dark brown piping. But not like that and never, never, do you have stitching on two seat cushions at right angles to each other. Exhibits bad taste. It ruins the interior, and the brown is dog turd shade, not the gentle pastel colour it should be. Knocks a grand off for me. I could not live with it. To be that early the switches are wrong. Likewise the mirrors. If the switches are right then it should not have brown interior. It would probably have been black with white piping. If brown then the interior paint is brown, thereafter its black. I could go on. Its this attention to detail that should command the price. Not that it looks pretty, which it does until you open it. Like a calendar model with a tooth missing.
Nothe interior trim set is pants, needs took out and the correct period one put in to match the rest of the alleged age of the car, early 1957ish. Failing that one of the optional extrea trims, like snakeskin adorned set. A set is currently for sale at £400 that would ge straight in and the car would look twice the machine for it.

Schmitts had Funk radios. They are very rare, big and you cannot pick up much in the way of a station you want to listen too. The two knobs went either side of the small pressing on early cars. The pressing coming out for the station finding teller. The larger hole with a blank plate was for the speaker, which had a rather art noveau surround and grill.  Some cars have the grill, but no radio. I think two radio sets exist over here, but your talking about a thing valued in four figures.

No idea if radials are available on 8 inch. The schmitt trike is not designed for them. I think it might be a dangerous move. At the moment the car tends to skid, before it tips over. It is therefore predictable once you have learned to drive it. I feel radials would not give you that feed back and with the likelyhood of softer sidewalls a flip would be sudden and catastrophic. If your going to put round at 45 mph why would you want radials, that demand more power to move them anyway. It would be an interesting experiment but I think quality crossplys would prove the best option for fast work. Its a frustration that despite Avon making a tyre specificity for Schmitts, the Schmitt clubs have steadfastly refused to even talk about a re-manufacture of them. All I here is it would be to expensive. Well without ever asking, who knows? Now the cars are not doing miles its probably to late. I get accused of negative thinking, I disagree, this reluctance to invest in quality is negative thinking and plain bone headed. If the majority of cars work properly, they would more likely be in use. Thats positive. Then cars like the one in this thread would have a better chance of being bung right.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

AndyL

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 09:42:55 AM »
I've read about the earlier domes. Didn't know about that until fairly recently. The difference in shape looks fairly subtle.

My Dad's car was a very early KR200, being a '55 model. He purchased the car when it was eight years old, and the dome had a crack in the front. A new one was an arm and a leg, plus he found he cooked in it on hot days, so he painted the top silver, and later when the car was repainted the front got a blue bit added, which you can see in the picture.

1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Big Al

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 12:15:19 PM »
Yep, wrong sidelights for '57. But have you got £400 each for a set to put on a car? It all comes down to the age of the car. Have they plumpted for the alleged best bits of each style to make up a car that never existed. Very modern, but not correct. AS I understand it Mark Smith was involved in the project. He knows what goes with what. So if he was the adviser they had access to the information, and spares sources. To do it incorrectly will have been a concious choice. From that, and TV's original brief to be educational ( Hmmm!) we should find the programme will comment, it should have been x but we decided it looked better/was expedient to do y. Now they have admitted this before, in which case no probs. It reflects the dilemma all restorers have.
But botty flavoured, miss matched seating, ugh. I would love to know that story.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

AndyL

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 01:04:34 PM »
My Dad's car started out black, with a red interior. Quite a sharp colour combination, I think schmitts are one of the few micros that suit black.

He had a bit of knock in it, was going a bit mad, and went in the back of some old pre-war bus in Muswell Hill. Bloke in front had no damage to speak of but commented it hadn't done the Schmitt a whole lot of good, as being very low down, it hit the bumper mid nose which took the brunt. Dad said it taught him a lesson as it was a lot of work to knock the dent back out. The car was initially resprayed gold, then finally blue as you see it.

1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

AndyL

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2015, 12:45:17 AM »
Yes, quite a bit of original trim disappeared. My Dad said rust was appearing around the aluminium trim, and he also had to glass up the front floor, as it had some holes in it and welding equipment back then was not really something a diy mechanic had access to.
1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Big Al

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Re: Wheelerdealers KR200
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2015, 08:26:19 AM »
What reg number is it. Is it known to still exist. I recall having a car that I think was black over gold over red. To many cars gone by to remember clearly.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs