Author Topic: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016  (Read 8970 times)

Big Al

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2016, 07:42:36 AM »
I could answer those questions, but will immediately be accused of negativity. Suffice it to say that the micro driver with tent is, as usual, subsidising the none micro-driver with camper. This has been noted, and I know of a number of no shows from the great none aligned, who asked me where they could find details of the rally, but who's budget to attend has, on balance, meant it was not worth their while. They are not members either. But in their case they are not catered for at all, in their minds. So hurrah for RUM.
That said several outcasts did say they might join in. So its not all doom and gloom. Hopefully they will arrive, with running car, and surprise a few folk in the process.
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DaveMiller

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2016, 12:18:24 PM »
Well, Al, don't worry: I'll accuse you of negativity anyway!

If people want to know details of the rally, they can find them at the rally's website - always the fullest and most up-to-date version, as things change.

You have (we know) a downer on the use of motirhomes, but your downer doesn't constitute evidence of any "subsidy".  The cost of pitches is standard, at £11 or £15 with electricITY (I hate it when campsites say "with electric"!) and in both cases is downright cheap.

There is no compulsion to bring a motorhome, and there is no "class distinction" between those with or without.  Both are equally welcome. 

I suspect that those who say "we're not going because of the motorhome crowd" are finding an excuse, so they can avoid going, and yet still blame someone else.

It seems odd that I've heard non-motorhomers complain about motorhomers, but never the other way round.  (Perhaps, for a more positive experience, we SHOULD ban non-motorhomers???)

And you can attend as a day visitor.

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2016, 12:39:59 PM »
I look forward to the suprises. The rally does depend on someone stepping forward each year to organise it and whether or not you go along with the arrangements that are eventually arrived at, there is always the option of putting yourself forward for next years event to show everyone how things should really be done! Barring that, there is always the review meeting which will be on Sunday 23rd October 2016 in Pinxton Village Hall, Kirkstead Road, Pinxton Derbyshire NG16 6NA at 1.00pm where feedback about this years rally or the rally in general will be positively encouraged. If you can't make it to the rally or to the review meeting, please send me a direct message and I'll happily pass on whatever feedback you have.

I hope as many people as possible support the rally and for as many days as possible, bringing a microcar with them if it is at all within their means.

http://www.national-microcar-rally.co.uk/index.html
Malcolm
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Big Al

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2016, 01:08:51 PM »
Which is why I did not open the can of worms very much. We have been here before, have we not. Those who want to believe what they want, will. The clues are partially in your answer, if you but wanted to see them. Its entirely a product of logic to see the contrary-wise issues. For years the non aligned folk have used me to find out what the deal was each year. They wanted me to do something about it. I did not want that task, and I have all but given up hitting my head on the wall, in the last few years, when there have been good rallies deserving of more support on the ground, but where is that to come from without advertising etc?

My Fairthorpe arrives tomorrow, and I think I will be attending the National with the first lot of spares to be sold off, and hopefully Stuart. Probably the Villiers / British stuff. None of those Microcars are staying in the collection. I'll take bids on Stuart during the day. Its time for a change, so you win. I hope there will be a bumper turn out, and the weather smiles. For the future, I am off to play Historic limited production Sports Cars, conspicuous by a lack of campervans at their events!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2016, 01:18:19 PM »
I have nothing bad to say about the National. Its always been fun and as Malcolm says, people organise it on our behalf at no gain to themselves. However I can see no harm in some healthy debate be it on forums or at the postmortem meeting.
On Als two points, getting the rally listed in other motoring publications. As I dont buy them I cant say if it is or isnt. So is it and if not, wouldnt that be a good idea?

The campervan thing. I dont care if people come in a camper or with a tent, B&B whatever but my only thought on this is at one time a field would suffice. Are we using caravan sites only now just to provide the campers with electric hook up? Would the cost of hiring portoloo's cancel out any extra cost we might be paying for using a caravan park? It would be good to know these things.
Ok £11 per night isnt too bad for camping these days but as of now we dont know the cost of the rally pack. It would be nice to have that up on the website so that folk on a tight budget can see exactly what attendance is going to cost them. If you own a 100k camper I doubt that's going to be an issue but to some people it can make the difference between attending or not. Just a thought. And finally, I for one cant afford to drive to Derbyshire to attend the meeting so I appreciate Malcolms offer to pass on any thought on our behalf.

ps.  Just another thought. So if the pitches are £11 each for one camper or one tent without electric I hope that means I can have as much space for my one man tent as a 20ft camper takes up because if not that would really suggest the tent campers are subsidising the motorhomes especially when space is limited.. Lets hope we all have marked out pitches of equal size then for equal cost.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 06:47:20 PM by Bob Purton »

Big Al

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2016, 05:08:21 PM »
Watch out Bob, your verging on negativity, old fruit.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

super-se7en (Malc Dudley)

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2016, 08:30:16 PM »
Organising last years national i was reminded that the tenters were subsidising the motor home people but we paid an extra £650 to give the tenters posh toilets next to their camping area.
The main point is to have  a national that brings everyone together and provide an experience that encompasses the common love of our hobby.
There will always be complaints but as long as the good things out way the bad then everyone will go away happy.
Have a thought for this years organisers as they will not see much of the rally. 

Jean

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2016, 11:30:00 PM »

Have a thought for this years organisers as they will not see much of the rally.
How very true this is.  No matter how well organised everything seems to be, the person or persons who are actually in charge of the organising sees more of the rally when watching the re-runs of videos or looking at the pictures that were taken, later.  This was true even in the early days when Edwin and I ran the rallies at Dorsington Manor and Sudeley Castle even though we had lots of help we had lots of help, we had very little recollection of who was there or who we talked to for the next day or two.  We were only pleased to know we had been able to iron out any problems as they arose so that everyone could be reasonably happy at the end of the day.  It is very exhausting but very pleasing when you get to hear it had been a enjoyable event in the main.  If there are only negative comments you think to yourself "why do I bother?" So please, don't forget the organiser and all their hard work.  Jean
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Bob Purton

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 08:56:16 AM »
Organising last years national i was reminded that the tenters were subsidising the motor home people but we paid an extra £650 to give the tenters posh toilets next to their camping area.
The main point is to have  a national that brings everyone together and provide an experience that encompasses the common love of our hobby.
There will always be complaints but as long as the good things out way the bad then everyone will go away happy.
Have a thought for this years organisers as they will not see much of the rally.

So here is a fine example of how constructive criticism works. Reality was faced up to and a sensible solution implimented. Result,  everyone was happy. I know there are those that will always complain regardless but be careful not to tar everyone who highlights an issue with the same brush. Its how improvements are made. Well done Malcolm.
I take my hat off to everyone who has ever stepped up to the mark with regards the national and am really looking forward to WEM.

richard

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2016, 09:30:24 AM »
Who is it that complains of campers ? I cannot remember this old chestnut being discussed without coming to the conclusion that it is often , perhaps not always, only Al that complains of the use of campers . It is not generally a complaint I feel . If it's only Al doing the complaining then we must ask ourselves how often Al is there at a rally in a tent cooking as in days of yor ? How many years ago ? Blaming dogs and bad legs etc. Doesn't cut the mustard , many have similar reasons hence less tenting .
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Big Al

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2016, 10:26:56 AM »
I wondered when we would hear from the high priest of trolling. Does not answer the questions Bob asked on the back of my raising a pricing policy query, does it?. You can throw all the sticks and stones you like at me, I have stated my case, If your minority is right, more folk will attend, enjoying their campers. If I am right, less genuine microcars will be present in running order. Either way I am not really bothered any-more, like many of the folk who own cars privately, and exclusively of club or forum involvement, simply so they can avoid situations such as this. While I am on the subject, congratulations on reducing the active participation of folk on this website forum.

Answer the questions instead of changing the subject and that might produce an answer that is helpful for your event's future, especially since your not at Beaulieu this year, and can participate, adding to the flavour of the event a sneeze and somersault from your home.

This round of communication can be found on another forum, where it is adjacent to the pertinent observation made some while ago, and apparently ignored by those who might have reacted. So should this disappear from this forum, like magic, its not gone away.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 10:37:50 AM by Big Al »
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Daniel Rodd

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2016, 11:46:51 AM »
OK,let's get everyone on an even keel,Richard hasn't had a roadworthy micro in,ever? Big Al hasn't camped for years,and I haven't got a micro at all at the moment (though Trabi urges may give way to purchase,600cc,look it up ;-)


I do understand Al's argument,back in my Reliant rallying days,the same issue arised( in fact in the 4 years since I stopped driving one turn out at events has dropped to the handful)
People were bringing huge motorhomes in increasing numbers,but not bringing a car,so you have a field full oif people grabbing a cheap weekend away (cheaper than the caravan club) and the few hardy souls with cars and tents driving long distance to be met with a poor turnout and nothing to interest them.I put forward an incentive,camping was usually £5 a night, I suggested that anyone bringing a reliant got £5 off their fees,and this did boost numbers of cars coming.In the same instance,the micro owner demographic is now much older and wealthier than it was,and they don't want to tent or drive long distance any more,so you are left with a sticky problem.
I think the aging ownership and stratospheric rise in values has more to do with low numbers than any split between tenters and campers. Have a look at the 1993 national video on YouTube, a constant stream of cars being driven in by people with dark hair.Its time which has changed things.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 11:49:19 AM by Daniel Rodd »

DaveMiller

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2016, 11:48:02 AM »
When you'ved calmed down Al, perhaps you'll retract the personal abuse, which has no place here.

Meanwhile, you've lost (at least) me.  Without any additional words, what are the questions which you think Bob asked, and which you think further postings in this thread should be restricted to?

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2016, 12:02:34 PM »
I think the aging ownership and stratospheric rise in values has more to do with low numbers than any split between tenters and campers. Have a look at the 1993 national video on YouTube, a constant stream of cars being driven in by people with dark hair.Its time which has changed things.
I think I would have to agree, I'd also observe that while some large classic vehicle events do offer free camping, they tend to be very big, long established, and in the same place every year and/or subsidised by corporate sponsorship, a substantive public entrance fee and a large number of traders or autojumblers.
Id' like an event that's fun, free and attended by thousands of microcars and their enthusiasts, but I'm happy with an event that's organised by a few brave souls who're only attempting to cover costs and thankful to anyone who makes the effort to bring something along for us microcar enthusiasts to look at.
Malcolm
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super-se7en (Malc Dudley)

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Re: NATIONAL MICROCAR RALLY 2016
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2016, 12:21:26 PM »
Danial i take your comments about 1993. I was there with 3 microcars and a camper. That was 23 years ago and now i am in my late 60s and a camper van is about all i can take.
As i booked in a lot of last years entrants the average age was in the late 50s (sorry Grant) and most of the campers were towing microcars.
We are an ageing bunch (ask Al) and times change.We should embrace change and modify the rallies to encourage new stock.
Regarding Al. I am sure he will do the same as last year, arriving Sunday morning paying his £2 entrance fee (not the rally pack) and selling parts on someone else stand. He is part of the microcar world and full of knowledge but does tend to upset people.
He is a dealer (retired but still a dealer) turning a profit out of buying and selling.This does not make him a bad person but different in attitude to most of us enjoying our hobby.
It is not my intention to upset anyone but tell it how it is.
I will get my coat!