RUMCars Forum
General Category => Microcar News => Topic started by: Jonathan Poll on December 05, 2010, 10:02:03 AM
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Hello,
On the internet, I keep seeing that Nobel's where made in 1958, but my car was first registered in 1959, and it is the 17th made, so it was probably made in the first week or day of the production. My car was registered in June 1959 for the first time, so does that mean that Nobel made a few cars, waited half a year and made another batch?
Also, I heard that no-one knows where the factory was. Is this the adress? I doubt it but you never know...
http://nobel200.weebly.com/uploads/4/1/3/9/4139669/5607917_orig.jpg
I have a picture of the reg document here:
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9672/copiederegmain.jpg)
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Dear Jonathan
It is very interesting to look at this type of document.
Firstly it says the Nobel was first regisered on 3 June 1959, but could have sat in a show room for a year before being sold. The first models were normally sent out to dealers to drum up business.
Secondly this is a duplicate log book and is stamped 28 April 1971. Therefore the Right Honerable John Prescott (Labour) may not have been the first owner but the last recorded owner in 1971.
A semi detached house on a council housing estate is not likely to be the birth place of the Nobel.
The early development work on the nobel was done in the centre of London just off Piccadilly at the executive car hire firm garage run by the forunners of Ryan Air where the design was influenced by a Messerschmitt owned by Nobel (hence the engine). So it is more likely that production would have been in the London and home counties area rather than Cheshire.
I do hope this helps to shed light on the vehicles history.
Chris Thomas
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Woolly unresearched brain power comes up with - Chassis was Harland and Wolff wasn't it. Something about shells at Bristol. Engine from Sachs as many Fulda licenses were. Underpinnings as common to other licenced production suggesting a central producer - Fulda selling a kit of bits? The componants would have met at a production line rather than a manufacturer therefore. The excess were buried under a road, A17 was it. So the burial would be near the production facility.
Big Al
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and to think ! old two jags prescott started off with a Nobel . that was before he was ENOBLED :D ;D
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and to think ! old two jags prescott started off with a Nobel . that was before he was ENOBLED :D ;D
I doubt it was the deputy PM who owned my car, otherwise my car would be worth a tad bit more ;)
Thanks all of you, I didnt think of the showromm idea.
- Jonathan -
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It probably was not the Ex Hon J Prescott, but it may have been the great pie eater. Stella Rimmington, a former head of MI5 got her first new car soon after starting work as a spook's secretary. What did she buy? A red Heinkel Kabine. And she said she loved it.
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Were not the cars made in Newtownsard Nothern Ireland? Bodies made by Bristol and shipped over?
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Were not the cars made in Newtownsard Nothern Ireland? Bodies made by Bristol and shipped over?
Hey Bob,
Why not post more pics of your nobel? I'm half way taking the dashboard of of mine ( well having a break obviously now lol ) I hazve the places they where made here: http://nobel200.weebly.com/nobel-200.html
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Early press photos and brochures touting the British Nobel 200 actually show German Fuldamobils. So if 1958 is mentioned as the initial point of manufacture it probably wasn't produced in this country till later. Microcar manufacturers of the 50's were renown for their use of disinformation.
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Dear All
Looking at the chassis plate the adress is giben as London W1 which is the area around Piccadilly where the initial development work was done. Perhaps they were assembled in the garage workshop in W1. Note the Ryan air connection with Irish Harland and Wolf.
With components coming from different suppliers they could have been made in a small garage workshop almost anywhere.
I was only joking about the Right Honarable gentleman. I do not think he would ever have lived in Cheashire.
Chris Thomas
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The Shorts aircraft company based at Rochester, Kent also made some of its large flying boats, like Sunderlands in part of the Harland and Wolf dockyard, particularly during WW2. By 1958 this part would have been barely operating, so this could be the area where Nobels were worked on, the rest of the ship yard still being busy.
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Dear All
Looking at the chassis plate the adress is giben as London W1 which is the area around Piccadilly where the initial development work was done. Perhaps they were assembled in the garage workshop in W1. Note the Ryan air connection with Irish Harland and Wolf.
With components coming from different suppliers they could have been made in a small garage workshop almost anywhere.
I was only joking about the Right Honarable gentleman. I do not think he would ever have lived in Cheashire.
Chris Thomas
The nobel factory was a giant place, here are some pics I put on facebook:
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1229.snc4/156121_181392551876163_100000162584972_712559_698160_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1213.snc4/156514_179909612024457_100000162584972_702467_2786762_n.jpg)
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Dear Jonathan
My contact tells me the workshop in London W1 where the York Nobel was worked on was the top floor of a multy story car park in Babmaes Street, off Jermyn Street in London, which is technically SW1 and not W1 which is the otherside of Piccadilly.
He says the cars were not made there but cars were serviced there. Noble himself would visit regularly but did not arrive by car but walked in, as if his office was not far away. It could be that there was another workshop near by. I will show my contact the photo of the factory where they were assembled to see if it is the same place.
Hopefully more news next week.
Chris Thomas
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Dear Jonathan
I have just done a google search and come up with this link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/belfast/A1067988.shtml
Which says that they were built in the Shorts Factory in Newtonards, N Ireland.
So what with Heinkels made in Dundalk and Nobel's made in Newtonards, What other microcars were mode in Ireland?
Chris Thomas
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Wow, I was right: the Belfast part of Shorts was called was called Harland and Shorts.
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Dear Jonathan
My contact tells me the workshop in London W1 where the York Nobel was worked on was the top floor of a multy story car park in Babmaes Street, off Jermyn Street in London, which is technically SW1 and not W1 which is the otherside of Piccadilly.
He says the cars were not made there but cars were serviced there. Noble himself would visit regularly but did not arrive by car but walked in, as if his office was not far away. It could be that there was another workshop near by. I will show my contact the photo of the factory where they were assembled to see if it is the same place.
Hopefully more news next week.
Chris Thomas
Thanks chris,
He was actually called Cyril Lord, and he used to do carpets. If you want, here are some more pics:
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1143.snc4/148583_178280252187393_100000162584972_690461_2699337_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1199.snc4/155099_179909645357787_100000162584972_702468_4027171_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1168.snc4/151020_179909695357782_100000162584972_702469_6635176_n.jpg)
(http://l15.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc4/hs1224.snc4/155599_179909795357772_100000162584972_702470_8195974_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs618.ash2/157041_181152061900212_100000162584972_711049_4988051_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs620.snc4/58000_181382891877129_100000162584972_712496_3445190_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1236.snc4/156864_181391915209560_100000162584972_712555_3079687_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs105.snc4/35588_181391811876237_100000162584972_712554_3015302_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1335.snc4/162743_181390995209652_100000162584972_712552_3318366_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1131.snc4/149307_181391938542891_100000162584972_712556_6442697_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs568.ash2/149004_181392078542877_100000162584972_712557_2906076_n.jpg)
Hope that helps!
- Jonathan Poll -
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Dear Jonathan
I think you will find that Cyril Lord, was the financier of the project not the company owner.
Thanks for the additional images, Clearly the Nobel was not built in Brussels at the Atomium.
Chris Thomas
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Blimey, I remembered right. I was going to suggest Shorts but thought that might be a step to far and it did not tie up with the account of burying unsold cars and parts under a new road. Of course Shorts would be in regular trade with Bristol's being both Aero engineers in need of additional contract work to retain their staff for lucrative projects when they arose, much as Vickers looked at Frisky as I told in that thread. Trojan bought the Heinkel production for much the same reason. Dad worked with Shorts briefly. One of the brothers virtually had two brains and could go without sleep for long periods and write differing languages with either hand at the same time. Mind you dad still said their stuff was crap. He held very high standards!
Of course the registered business address of a company often is not the manufacturing base of that company. It is reasonably likely that the production and marketing were actually performed by differing companies to protect investments.
With respect to Ireland - Eire - the only car manufactured in that country was the Heinkel. Hence its historical importance to that nation. However they assembled a lot of differing vehicles to avoid tax. This included KR175 Messerschmitt.
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Most of the Shorts Flying Boats used Bristol Jupiter, Pegasus and Hercules engines.
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i remember the adverts for lords carpets in the 60's on tv .......sung in a rich baritone i think -
the best that you can afford
at CYRIL LORD !!
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i remember the adverts for lords carpets in the 60's on tv .......sung in a rich baritone i think -
the best that you can afford
at CYRIL LORD !!
Lol, better than the Nobel one: Almost as cheap as breathing " . Really? can I breathe 10 times to get a Nobel? If so, I would have a museum!
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of course i should have researched him first :-[
wikipedia " cyril lord -A marketing phenomenon that went bust very suddenly " in 1968 and the ad was of course :
HERE IS LUXURY YOU CAN AFFORD BY CYRIL LORD !
loads of stuff on him and business worldwide - fascinating but no mention i could find on Nobels
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wikipedia " cyril lord -A marketing phenomenon that went bust very suddenly " in 1968 and the ad was of course :
Age allows the privilege of realising that the phenomenon of clever types going bust very suddenly is neither very rare nor very clever I would suggest. Smart money never exposes itself. Unfortunately for Microcar inventors quite a few got tied into the wrong people to ever be successful. It is clear the opposite is true too. Sharps turned Bond's designs into a saleable commodity to the extent of changing the production line when Bond was not present, for instance. Shiny offices in London and lots of froth is not going to provide long term sales if the product is not right. History repeats itself. Makes for interesting spectating though.