RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on January 28, 2012, 03:52:28 PM
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had to post this -on ebay trip around the villiers factory 1970 DVD genre - RELIGION :D even i think thats pushing our hobbie to extremes :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Villiers-Engines-Factory-visit-Wolverhampton-1970-now-DVD-Internal-works-tour-/380335686956?pt=UK_CDsDVDs_DVDs_DVDs_GL&hash=item588dc6052c
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Bonds are hardly the "god of cars" ;)
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Where does it say anything about Bonds?
Generations of families used Villiers engines on the land, road and water. Many were fitted in other BRITISH machines. Foreign copies were also made under licence. I think they are a great engine if you treat them well. I never had any problems with the many I bought back from being dead lumps. :P
Thanks Richard, I've just bought my copy.
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i was wondering about jonathans Bond reference too - lots of great cars had Villiers engines - like GORDONS , do i make my point :) actually for all the vehicles fitted with Villiers the engines rarely came in for much ,if any , critisism. >: though i always liked the item that was in RUM a few years ago ;)
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Just like a Woman.... Treat them right and they will always look after you. ;D
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depends how old they are ! can be hard to get them going - .even the best can get mucky ........ villiers not women of course ;)
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Where does it say anything about Bonds?
Generations of families used Villiers engines on the land, road and water. Many were fitted in other BRITISH machines. Foreign copies were also made under licence. I think they are a great engine if you treat them well. I never had any problems with the many I bought back from being dead lumps. :P
Thanks Richard, I've just bought my copy.
I know, but Villiers makes me think of Bond first. I didnt realise the Gordon did (proves my point though ;) ), there great cars. My dads bond is great. Its the first car I have ever changed gears on. Great fun!
One car I would love one day is a frisky Gullwing replica. The good thing is that the original mold is still around! Have any bodies been cast yet?
JP
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One car I would love one day is a frisky Gullwing replica. The good thing is that the original mold is still around! Have any bodies been cast yet?
That should be called the Frisky Fulmar, runs on petrel too. Mind you if it were sold as a do it yourself, Kittywake might be more appropriate.
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OH JONATHAN . you poor dear boy ! not your fault of course - not having " benefitted " from an English education :)
VILLIERS = BOND ?
villiers supplied engines for amongst others Bond, Russon , Allard Clipper, Tourette, Scootacar, AC Petite, Gordon, Frisky, Biscuter( licensed) various invacars and aprox 38 makes of British Motorcycle - post-war alone .
your father should set you some lines :) bet you could recite the users of the Sachs engine though eh ?
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OH JONATHAN . you poor dear boy ! not your fault of course - not having " benefitted " from an English education :)
VILLIERS = BOND ?
villiers supplied engines for amongs others Bond, Russon , Allard Clipper, Tourette, Scootacar, AC Petite, Gordon, Frisky, Biscuter( licensed) various invacars and aprox 38 makes of British Motorcycle - post-war alone .
your father should set you some lines :) bet you could recite the users of the Sachs engine though eh ?
Sachs 200:
Messerschmitt KR200/201
Messerschmitt K-106
Nobel 200
Fuldamobil (models vary from 200 to 360cc I think)
all of the other Fulda sort of cars: Bambi, FKF, Attica (some had Heinkel),...
Brutsch Avolette (not sure about all of them, you would know ;) )
Our weird green coffin/garden shed "car"
More, but I forgot ;)
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whose engine was in the TGR ?
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whose engine was in the TGR ?
TGR?
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surely TGR 500 is the correct name for a Messerschmitt Tiger isnt it ?
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surely TGR 500 is the correct name for a Messerschmitt Tiger isnt it ?
No, its in fact TG500 ;)
They had problems with the Subeam Tiger, so only the very early tigers are "Tigers", the others are TGs.
I listed only Sachs 200!
The TG does not have a Sachs engine, its manufactured by FMR, Sachs designed it, but didnt like it, so let FMR make them, as long as they didnt have Sachs written on them!
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again depends on your refernce i suppose but it was an unused sachs engine that Fend sorted for the Tiger . i heard TIGER was out due to issues with Krupps . and i believe the TG became the TGR and thats why they ended up known as the Tiger .
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again depends on your refernce i suppose but it was an unused sachs engine that Fend sorted for the Tiger . i heard TIGER was out due to issues with Krupps . and i believe the TG became the TGR and thats why they ended up known as the Tiger .
Lets see what my dad replies, he knows a lot more than me!
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Jonathan, Sorry to dash your dreams but no Gullwing Frisky mould survives.
Only two cars built and only one had an engine
I have the original buck but it is very fragile
see www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk under Events / The grand Line up
and Protoypes / Gullwing prototype
John
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Not sure if what became the FMR500 engine had a prior incarnation to the agricultural use it was put to but it appeared as supplied to the Cultimax farm/small holding machine before the Schmitt was thought of. So in other words a tractor engine in a similar way to the TR2. Both sets of owners are more than happy to deflect this information but it makes nothing less of the car itself, only any assumed status that never existed. Both cars records stand for themselves as pretty rugged performers.
Allegedly Sachs were well aware of the engines shortcomings and probably had misgivings about the number of units Fend would sell into the bargain, despite the success of the KR200 which owed much to Sachs tweaking their unit to suit the car. They chose not to manufacturer the engine but offered the construction rights. FMR had no prior experience of making an engine but bereft of a suitable engine that another manufacturer would supply they bought the rights to the 500 twin and made it. Clearly with no control to the product Sachs wanted to distance themselves from what was, for them, an out dated design. It is on this basis that the FMR500 engine is not the easiest thing to live with as it is made with some quality control issues and is a bit of a one off. That it was used to achieve some very good competition results and that the hard core owners make these units reliable says something for the design, which is undoubtedly flawed. What would have happened if money had been spent on it so it had a gearbox of the quality of, say, the Goggo, who knows. It would certainly have been even quicker over the ground. Difficult to know if it would have sold many more as it would have had to have been even more expensive.
The TG500 appeal is all rolled up with this engine thing. So much of the car was a cul de sac of automotive design in hindsight yet it works and works better than it should do. There will never be another car like it. It is that rare thing a successful failure and you cannot help but feel for it on some level.
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obviously i am not and never have been an expert on the item we are now discussing ( never stopped me before tho :D ) - BUT this article refers to the info i posted and conforms with what i had understood - is this incorrect then ?
http://www.germanmotorcycles.cl/Messerschmitt/Messerschmittcoments.html
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Hmm. Not very accurate and coloured by anyone German engineer being an utter hero. So Glas was a fool who went phut and Fend was a success who was unlucky. Who made the most cars and money again? Does this guy know Erich von Denikein at all?
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Jonathan, Sorry to dash your dreams but no Gullwing Frisky mould survives.
Only two cars built and only one had an engine
I have the original buck but it is very fragile
see www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk under Events / The grand Line up
and Protoypes / Gullwing prototype
John
Oh, I saw that picture before, and I thought it was the mold!
Lets hope one day one of the cars will be found! (by me hopefully!)
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in 1959 villiers celebrated 60 years in business . they cited 312 different manufacturers and 87different uses for their engines
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in 1959 villiers celebrated 60 years in business . they cited 312 different manufacturers and 87different uses for their engines
88 if you include Kedge anchor.
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been on the broads and they make a good mudweight is that the same thing . they must be a stationery engine though ;)
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in 1959 villiers celebrated 60 years in business . they cited 312 different manufacturers and 87different uses for their engines
Going back to the quote. I wonder how many of those manufacturers are still trading? A sample of lost manufacturing base and skills.