RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: Scootacar_mk1 on January 06, 2010, 08:21:11 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1961-Messerschmitt-FMR-TG500-Tiger-Classic-Car-Original_W0QQitemZ260532201845QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3ca8ede975#v4-36
Nice original car!
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Needs a little work, but totally gorgeous*
* My favourite micro car of all!
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Yes, its not a secret anymore mates. The Ponderosa Tiger in its beautiful state is for sale now. I wonder where it will go to.
Any gossip ;)
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Absolutely wonderful! total time warp, love those little scoops over the engine, no idea if these genuine. It'll be interesting to see if it reaches the reserve.
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Absolutely wonderful! total time warp, love those little scoops over the engine, no idea if these genuine.
not genuine, the "ejector seat" button is also not original.
The car is also being discussed on the Yahoo Messerschmitt forum and has gone from "paint is not original" to "paint is original but buffed out" and "actually is probably pretty original and would love to see what is under the seat covers.."
here is a photo of the car someone took several years ago when it used to be sitting in a barn at the "Ponderosa" old timey western theme park where the TV show BONANZA was filmed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cesar25/3164399860/
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This TG is leagues ahead of most comparable cars. It hasn't become an utterly neglected rotten worn out wreck with loads of miles and incorrect basic (read important) parts.
It is a however a sound, slightly tinkered with machine that obviously needs fettling but will be a doddle to get back together.
You'd be doing extremely well finding a KR let alone a TG is this condition. Or in fact any micro that's nigh on half a century old.
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Alas it is WAY beyond me, but I will look forward to seeing the selling price.
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This TG is leagues ahead of most comparable cars. It hasn't become an utterly neglected rotten worn out wreck with loads of miles and incorrect basic (read important) parts.
It is a however a sound, slightly tinkered with machine that obviously needs fettling but will be a doddle to get back together.
You'd be doing extremely well finding a KR let alone a TG is this condition. Or in fact any micro that's nigh on half a century old.
Sounds it might be a good projekt for you Perry. Go for it mate !
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Anyone care to make a guess as to what it will go for?
I will start the ball rolling with 70K* .....
..... but I am not daft enough to state in which currency!
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This TG is leagues ahead of most comparable cars. It hasn't become an utterly neglected rotten worn out wreck with loads of miles and incorrect basic (read important) parts.
It is a however a sound, slightly tinkered with machine that obviously needs fettling but will be a doddle to get back together.
You'd be doing extremely well finding a KR let alone a TG is this condition. Or in fact any micro that's nigh on half a century old.
Sounds it might be a good projekt for you Perry. Go for it mate !
Perhaps Ferdie,
But....
I have a Trident that is not really a road usable machine today. I have a P50 thus ditto...
I have a Scootacar which if one analyses is half in concept KR and half Peel. What I mean is it can keep up with traffic
like a KR etc but is potty looking like a Peel. But certain parts are hard to obtain like suspension,steering gear,certain brake parts
and various electrical things like back lights.
So my KR is a dream. It drives fantastic. Plus the MOC has all the bits to keep the Kabine rollin'!
So what I DONT need is an underdeveloped bastard of a car that has a nasty gearshift and a power unit that seems to always go wrong. I have enough rare and desirable micros to keep me happy and I wish the owner of this TG all the best!
Fantastic to look at but not for me... Maybe one of O.H's TG600 Trabant engined machines with a sport (not 201) top....
Hmm....
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I love TGs no matter what!
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It's up to $88,600, reserve not met.
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Now at over £56,000, reserve not met, one day left.
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Well at close of auction the bid was $91,100 reserve not met. I wonder what will happen next!
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Well at close of auction the bid was $91,100 reserve not met. I wonder what will happen next!
As i am watching how the prizes for Tigers are rising, i should think about selling my Tg in good running condition plus spare engine!!!!
(http://www.kabinenroller.de/Pictures/Gallery/TG500_Bild_04.jpg)
Any offers???
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Suprised Ebay still allows such dubious auction practices as setting a staggeringly high reserve to test the market, just to get an idea of how much people might be prepared to pay. For a $7.00 listing fee the "Seller" now has a list of several bidders who are keenly interested in his car - even if they dropped out long before the "auction" reached half the end figure.
I love TGs, but I hate the way Ebay "values" for things that don't sell are held up to be representative of anything.
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I love TGs, but I hate the way Ebay "values" for things that don't sell are held up to be representative of anything.
excellent point.
despite having pointed this out to people again and again, I have found that people perceive that ANY price that a car reaches even if it DOES NOT meet reserve means that the car was "worth" that and people were willing to actually pay that price.
They do not take into account shilling bidding or the people that like to play "guess the reserve" and just assume the value is whatever the highest number is.
I was just at a meet this weekend and 2 people were talking about the yellow Tg on German eBay that went up to $148,000 reserve not met (sorry for the amount in dollars...).
They seemed a bit distracted when I tried to explain to them that the numbers meant nothing.
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Beautiful! My top favourite car of all.
I will have to write to the Lottery and ask them to fix it for me. When I do win the lottery (my chances might increase if I ENTERED the lottery!) I will have a Tiger, a Heinkel/Trojan and a Morgan Matchless MX3.
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I love TGs, but I hate the way Ebay "values" for things that don't sell are held up to be representative of anything.
excellent point.
despite having pointed this out to people again and again, I have found that people perceive that ANY price that a car reaches even if it DOES NOT meet reserve means that the car was "worth" that and people were willing to actually pay that price.
They do not take into account shilling bidding or the people that like to play "guess the reserve" and just assume the value is whatever the highest number is.
I was just at a meet this weekend and 2 people were talking about the yellow Tg on German eBay that went up to $148,000 reserve not met (sorry for the amount in dollars...).
They seemed a bit distracted when I tried to explain to them that the numbers meant nothing.
Prices of TG's are banded about as nearly 6 figures sterling or euro. This thing is a superb example for people who value originality. Easy to recommision.
Pretty firm indicator of what a TG's worth TODAY. The world has voted with their wallets...
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I'm with Rusty chrome and Jim on this one. No ones wallet has opened, neither of the cars sighted have been sold, ebay is a tool easily manipulated.
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Yes its an easy way to drive prices up,,,,,an owner of a similar car or a dealer who knows the ebay seller will rattle up the bids ( keeping below the excessive reserve ) and all the watchers will think that thats the value of the car.....
Another devious trick to find the reserve,,, maybe of a genuine selling car,,,is to overbid by 'mistakingly' adding an extra zero or two to reveal the reserve ,and then removing the bid. However before the bid is removed you can see the reserve price ..... just been done to my pal selling a classic bike.....
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I know all of that about ebay, but that is not the fault of the car itself. The seller of this one posted 2 days ago that he had lowered his reserve (Ok perhaps by only a token amount!) and the final bid of $91,100 went up the day before the end. If I had a TG I would only sell it in desperation or for what it is worth to ME to loose it, regardless of the actual market value.
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So Marcus, if you had a TG that was worth say 60K but it was only worth 30 to you or you only needed 30 you would accept that for it? Are you sure?
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What I mean is that unless I was really desperate to sell it, I would only sell for the theoretical market value + a huge extra wallop of dosh to compensate me for not having it anymore! In other words a buyer would have to pay MY price!
Obviously my lottery win will have to be sufficient to buy a nice one, and I will set up a Trust to ensure that it is always kept in tip top condition, ready for use at any time, so that if I am too busy to do running maintenance "My Man" and a fully-equipped garage will always be on hand. The same will apply to my Heinkel / Trojan, Morgan, and possibly a Rovin and Scammell Scarab as well. In fact I'd better have 2 of each, so there is always one available.
Not asking much am I?!
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That TG was bid to 55k sterling. So today it is worth no more or less. However perhaps tomorrow by private treaty a deal will probably be struck maybe in excess of that.
Depends if the seller wants to accept the pice. Ebay reserves are a waste of time. Either list without pound from the ground if you have balls or start at your min price.
But Marcus, putting a middling car up for sale for the market value then sticking loads on top is utterly laughable. It won't obviously sell.
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I wonder if we find out who buys it and for how much.
People have often asked me how much my Trojan is worth, I told them an approximate current value, and they then offered me that, on the spot. I politely said that they would have to give me quite a lot more than what it is worth for me to part with it, and that would be my policy if I had a TG...what it is "worth" and what I would sell it for (except in desperation) are very different!
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When people ask what my bangers are worth on the mean streets of Londinistan I reply...
"How much is a cup of water worth to a man dying of thirst in the dessert?"
Then they leave me alone..
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Nice, I might use that one!
One fellow once offered an immediate swap,on the spot, for his brand new Toyota Pervia. No.
I could have done the swap, sold the Pervia, bought another Trojan in similar or better condition and had a reasonable profit, but I preferred to save myself the hassle.
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Personally I always feel most insulted whenever someone comes up & wants to buy any of my vehicles like that. (yes folks, it's happened with everything I've ever had, be it conveyance or "normal", unbeliveable as it may sound)
In every single case, its always the same old story. They didn't want one untill the very moment they saw the attention my vehicle was getting. They didn't even know such a vehicle existied untill the very moment they saw the attention my vehicle was getting... They are not enthusiasts nor intrested in the vehicle itself. The only thing they want is the attention & accolade that they think the vehicle will waft unto them & they seem to think pound notes is the way to get it. Well not with me or mine it isn't, Then as now my personal feelings towards those types, has always been "bugger off & find one for yourself, like I had to..."
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I know what you mean Stuart, but I feel you cannot blame those people for not knowing about micros. Most people either have only vague memories, or they have heard from "bloke in the pub" that they have no merit. Indeed my neighbour thought I was nuts to be interested in bubbles and micros, until some Ray and Jenny Dilks in their yellow and grey Heinkel, and Peter Jones in his yellow Trojan turned up in our yard for the London-Edinburgh run. Later that evening Mike Shepherd heroically arrived in his green Goggomobil with a spare float chamber top, as Peter's had fallen off. My neighbour saw these cars in the flesh for the first time and his scorn instantly turned to outright enthusiasm.
I actually think that is part of the fun of having a very unusual car, and when people suddenly see them and get interested I think that is a good thing. Most of us into these things are middle-aged, and we have to get new and young people interested in owning, restoring and using these characterful jalopies, and joining the clubs, and buying their spare parts and merchandise because that will keep it possible for them to be used.
I agree it can be irritating, but just remember you are converting the heathen hordes! Take pride in being interested in obscure things! And when the heathenhordes see these wonders, be flattered at the fact that (at last) they see that you DO have an interesting machine DESPITE what "bloke in the pub" told them!
It's all part of the fun, even when the hordes are a bit irritating!
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Used to be when someone first asked "what is it worth" to whatever I was driving, I was put off by it and did not bother replying. I mean if that is all they are interested in I am not interested in talking with them.
But lately I have found that if I just put some crazy price on it that shuts them up and then maybe they will move on to talking about the car.
Currently, everything is "worth" $100,000 if you ask me me cold.
but, maybe you can find one cheaper if you look hard and talk to a lot of people and make some friends!
I have also had to deal with the "glass of water to a dying man" type of inquires. These tend to be from people who don't care what the car is "worth" but want to buy the car.
When I tell them the car is not for sale, they get angry and frustrated
"how much, how much?" they keep pushing.
I then have to explain that if they want to buy something that is not for sale, they must offer something that will MAKE it for sale.
Pulling a handgun out and pointing it at my head, or my wife's head is one way to "make the car for sale", but that rarely happens.
I have actually brought that up, depending on who I am talking to, I offer the gun option to them, but they don't have one, so I act disappointed and suggest that next time they bring one, they will have better luck negotiating. Then we have a laugh, ha ha ha.
Eventually they come up with some lowball offer since the car is small (so how could it be worth anything?) and I decline.
Then they get all upset that I have declined their most generous offer.
So I tell them a story:
Someone once asked Pablo Picasso why he charged so much for his paintings.
His reply was simple: "You want to take from me something that I love, I must take from you something that you love"
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I like the Picasso quote, that's what I meant about pricing my theoretical TG500!
I think some "chatters" I have encountered have a little knowledge of some micros and bubbles but have always been too shy, or too swayed by peer pressure. So when they encounter one of us who DOES have the guts to drive around in weird jalopies, and enjoys doing so, they are impressed and want to get in on the fun. You cannot blame them for that! But obviously the obsession with money is irritating, but even that has its value: 30 years many classic micros could be bought for very little, but they were old hat and few wanted them. If I tell someone that reasonable H/Ts go for £4,000 to £8,000 they respect my interest in such oddities much more than if I said £50; once these people know they ARE desired and sought-after they realise there really is an appeal to them. Just like if your band sells 100,000 records you will be taken much more seriously than a band who sells 100 records.
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London the Edinburgh run? I didnt know about that, do tell us more. Did everyone make it safely?
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It was about 6-7 years ago, trying to do it in under 12 hours to recreate 1) the original publicity run for the Heinkel's UK launch, and 2) the 25th (?) anniversary commemorative run.
Peter Ray and Jenny turned up on Saturday and stayed overnight with us. Ted Miller and Mike O'Ballance were also scheduled, but at last minute had to replace an engine overnight. On Sunday morning I led them to Westminster Bridge where another Trojan from Wales (forgotten his name) was already waiting. Set off at Ten on Big Ben's face, then I led them up to North London and the start of the A1. Whilst saying goodbyes, Ted and Mike came along the same road heading to Westminster for a late but "official" start. It was sheer luck,but they stopped for a few minutes to say hello, then they all got on their way. They had various dramas along the way, not least Ray and Jenny having only a handbrake working! They met up with several people along the way, culminating in Grant Kearney in his green KR200 meeting them outside Edinburgh to escort them to the stop, all within 12 hours.
Ted and Mike decided that leeds to London to Edinburgh to Leeds was not enough so they carried on around Wales, still wanted more and headed off around Ireland, all on Mike's newly installed spare engine.
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You didnt chance it yourself them Marcus? Its the sort of thing that would make a great article for RCN, I dare say the Heinkel mags featured the story.
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A) I was busy
B) I could not afford to go all the way to Scotland
C) There is no C)
D) My Velorex only had remaining cloth on its front, and was not really up to such a long run
E) I was not up for such a long run in a virtually body-free car, not in our climate!
I did think about it, and was tempted but common sense won me over. I mean, if anything had failed or fallen off where would I get spares? It was fun for a while, but I wanted a car with a club, available spares, help, advice etc. so later I p-ex'd it for a Trojan. The story was covered quite fully in the H-T club mags. I was already in the club and thinking of getting one, and Ray and Jenny let me drive theirs for a bit. Jenny sent me a DVD she put together with lots of photos and a few clips of film set against some music, and the club did a presentation folder for everyone involved in the run.
Mike and Ted covered hundreds of miles and lots of mountain climbing too. They had spares, food and drink and camping gear but still averaged 89 mpg!
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Oh, I didnt realise it was before you had DUF. Yes it would have been drafty in a naked Velorex!