RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on November 04, 2013, 09:54:41 PM
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for the Bruetsch followers amongst us , original pics seem very rare - the cars rarer still i think
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That's a nice photograph!
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quick reminder versions of Bruetsch's cars were built under licence , though there were disputes , as Belcar in Switzerland , Avolette in France , Mopetta , Spatz , Victoria and Burgfalke in Germany , any others ? Bob ? ;D
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2 more that i've not seen before from the same site
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There is a Belcar on the Register, it has 191cc Sachs engine and lived in Holland, in fact i believe it still does. Jean
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Earls Court Motorcycle Show November 1956 ,hopefully this picture is larger than posted previously therefore easier to view .
L-R Bussard, Zwerg and Mopetta in the background exactly as a mirror image to the Bussard i can make out the windscreen frame of my 4 wheel Pfeil - can anyone else make it out ?
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Dear Richard I can see the windscreen frame on the car the other side of the stand, But what model it is ????
What is interesting is the Villiers engine on the same stand. Presumably if they had gone into production in the UK they would have been powered by the Villiers twin engine?
Chris Thomas
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I've zoomed in and cleaned up as best I can on the car behind the stand, you can see the curve of it's rear end as well. Wonder if it's worth contacting Morton's Archive to see if they've got any other pictures of the stand at the 56 show?
http://www.mortonsarchive.com/contact.html (http://www.mortonsarchive.com/contact.html)
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Hi chris 2 replies above the stand pic you see a pic of two cars at the Frankfurt show. The white 3 wheel Bussard and the dark 4 wheel Pfeil - same 2 cars . Thanks malc much clearer I tried someone years ago but will try Mortons now.
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the car on the other side of the stand . same curves , same lights , unfortunately screen and pillars went awol . of the others on the stand Mopetta survives , Zwerg in the middle survives , the Bussard was destroyed but the screen was donated to me - i now need the screen pillars and bottom frame making - how ?
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When you discover how Richard let me know as I have to do the same job. :'(
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Do you have a glass yet Bob ? Brass ?
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I will send you a PM.
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3 of the 4 cars this time at the 1956 Frankfurt show - this is the sort of screen surround I need Bob - but where do you start ?
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There was another licencense production in switzerland, or at least the made a pub...
http://www.rollermobilclub.ch/schweizer-kleinwagen-sprint
Oliver
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thanks oliver it's a new one on me !
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Have you seen one of the surrounds in the flesh? What's it made of? Could be easier to make than a bent channel one!
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never seen one as there is no other to copy ! but it MUST look right
pm'd my ideas for yours :o
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glass screen as i say i have that . fibreglass frame certainly standard sealing rubber certainly , but how do you make a screen surround and even then how do you make it stand up and stay upright , even if you could make one ?
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Just looked at the Belcar in David Sparrows book. Its nothing like it so no clue there! Do you know if the screen its self was glass or plastic? I wouldn't mind guessing the surround was fiberglass at Egon was obsessed with the stuff.
I'm wondering if its a fiberglass moulding with a screen held in by a screen rubber that just ends after it turns the upper corners. Looks a bit naff to me! Are you sure its not off a boiler? ;D ;D
Shouldn't be a problem.
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I would fabricate it in thin steel sheet first and the then use that to mould a Fiberglass one from.
It must have a lip on its underside that bolts to the body , as the surround and lip have a curve at each end that's what allows it to stand up with some rigidity.
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hmmm will think about this one , many thanks indeed for the advice .
i only posted Bruetsch again as the forum seems so quiet generally - you know how to keep me off ;)
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Second thoughts, once you have made it in steel, why not just use a steel one?
Yes, the forum does go quite sometimes. One of the factors in my view is that most of the users are not actually doing anything with microcars, just interested. Hence less to discuss.
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Yes, the forum does go quite sometimes. One of the factors in my view is that most of the users are not actually doing anything with microcars, just interested. Hence less to discuss.
Interesting point Bob. I think it could be quite the opposite. Most are so busy with their microcars they don't have the time to post on forums. That's my problem anyway. Flat out on Frisky Sport and Messerschmitt restorations at the moment and then off to the NEC for a few days.
Grant
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Possibly but I doubt it. Well you are always going to be the exception Grant! My point is that most of the posts are general chit chat, historical photographs, did you see this on ebay sort of thing. Often people just run out of things to talk about. I do still enjoy the chit chat and photo's, just I find the driving and the doing of microcar stuff that much more interesting.
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I guess those less active have no problems they need help with or have cars catered for by an owners club or forum of their own . Unusual Micro's very often do not have this support and have to get involved in sourcing , making or indeed having made ;) parts .I often post things I find interesting in the hope of interesting others - I don't always manage that bit !
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great new pics of Brutsch / Bruetsch cars on flikr was it someone we know ?
by the way beer tokens offerred to anyone turning up a photograph of the Pfeil interior , dash, and / or rear numberplate and lights . i don't THINK there is one
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=bruetsch
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WHAT AN INDULGENCE :o i have just bought from stilltime a high quality print on top paper £21.90 - but heh you can't take it with you . this to be my inspiration over next few years :P
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from the sublime to the ridiculous ! a very poor photo from Deutsch Kleinwagen , presumably none better existed , the Bruetsch Circus I presume off touring Europe seeking someone to take up the production rights . Does a better copy of this exist ?
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I'm going to but in if a can , so your both looking for a windscreen surround for the car in white ? You don't want to mess around with fiberglass because you don't want a chance to ruin your cars paint ? Have u got a original screen ? I would cover the area with cling film and use air drying clay braced to get the shape of where the screen sits and use the mould to try different ideas but just from them pictures I'm guessing the best way would be a steel frame and foam to get the shape then fiberglass a buck out of that , make your screen surround out of the buck
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only 1 screen surround required - theres only 1car - no paint to worry about . clay sounds interesting but i've had another idea could i shape one from high density foam , if such a thing exists where would i buy some 4' long ? if i then built it up with fibreglass matting how would i get the smooth finish required ? When built up would it have enough strength or would i need to remove the foam and infill the cavity . sorry this may be simple for some but i am just trying to figure out the procedure >
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hi jean this is i think the swiss belcar now in holland and on RUM . doesn't look so nice now as this period photo - but it's great still . we've seen it before but what the heck ;)
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I'm abit confused because the last picture has a different surround than the other pictures ? What one are you trying to make ? Put some pictures up of your car and the screen , you basically need to build the surround, make a mould out of that then used that mould to mould the final piece if that makes sense ?
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well we went off a bit but the topic started with Herr Bruetsch's design which ended up in one direction is the Swiss Belcar - pictured first and last on this topic .
my car is the Bruetsch Pfeil - same screen surround as the Bussard - are you following :) this pic is what i need
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What's it like behind the screen ? As in the windscreen wiper assembly on your car ?
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i have nothing at all other than the bodyshell and a new dashboard that i have put in , hopefully the correct, place
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Wow that's a serious amount of work to do, make the surround out of wood and clay to make the fiberglass mould , what's your plans with the rest of the car like the chassis ? Have you had the car long ?
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everyone else on here is sick to death of it ! :D had it 10 years or so but got very little done - working , when do , on 4 cars at the same time does not help :)
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Is it the 3 wheel model ? Haha bout time you got on with it then , so if you've only got the body what's the idea with getting it back on the road , engine and chassis plans ?
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I do have the chassis , all 4 wheels, and body I have sourced suitable speedo and panel switches and back and front lights .I don't have seats, any interior ,dash, any wiring,screen surround or ANY suspension
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Can't you use a mini front end with the engine and build your own chassis or is this abit to much like car kit car for your liking ?
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I know its a bit of a wreck BUT its a serious restoration of an historic vehicle - those sort of things are just not done old boy :o
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Haha when I was typing that I thought it would be abit of an outrage ! Are you trying to source original parts ? Or have them made ?
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A bit of both but all wil be "sympathetic" no photos exist of the interior , but everyone will know if its " correct "
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(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/stevefisk1/IMAG0847_zps27e24ea7.jpg) it's a stunning looking car , just had a quick google and if you kept it similar to the other models you couldn't go far wrong
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cockpit surround on this later V2 is raised , mine as you see has no lip at all hence the need for the frame - by the way where's that pic from out of interest ?
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Load up some more pictures of your car as a whole , sounds really interesting, I'm prob going to outrage you again but have you ever thought about making a mould out of the car to get one on the road quicker ?
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https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Br%C3%BCtsch_V2_1957_seitlich.JPG (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Br%C3%BCtsch_V2_1957_seitlich.JPG)
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The screen doesn't look high enough. Was Egon a short man? :D
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Thanks malc I didn't recognise that pic though definitely seen it before . I believe that car is just a dummy with no engine/transmission and the wheels are just for show - actually thinking about it a bit like own :D. Still having difficulty seeing steves ENORMOUS pictures on my handheld device WI a 2" screen
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Herr Bruetsch doesn't appear to have been a tall man - here pictured with a tin of resin and glassfibre matting - then a fairly new material - i wish he could pop around and do the work now
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Haha sorry for the massive pictures can't help it , there from an iPad , have you given fiberglass ago ?
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you live on a very different planet to me steve . i have been hard at work which i do every week day , coming weekend pretty much booked with long country walk saturday and friends at ours for dinner till very late with much whisky to be consumed ;) if i get around to the fibreglassing it will be next spring when i drag the Bruetsch out from under the Bond MK A . whilst hopefully painting and getting the Gordon roadworthy . such is my life :)
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In reference to malcolms advice to contact Mortons archive - I have received a reply but unfortunately they have no photographs of the Bruetsch Stand at the 1956 Earls Court Motorcycle Show - a real shame . Interestingly the head archivist she said that she has looked through their " glass plates " BRILLIANT what a lovely job that must be !
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Is that an amphibious Tourette?
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Is this a new photo to the forum?
on this blog
http://reservatory6.blogspot.jp/2013/12/paris-salon-de-lautomobile-1948-1955.html
Here is the description under the photo:-
WWII left Europe's auto industry in ruin. Before the factories of the major players could be rebuilt, small-timers eagerly stepped in to fill the basic transportation needs of weary citizens after years of hardship and uncertainty. Egon Brütsch's tiny three-wheeled roadster, suspiciously similar to the Peardrop microcar French aeronautical engineer Victor Bouffort promoted on a tour through Germany and the UK in 1952, was built from polyester half-shells glued at the waist and powered by the same 191cc Fichtel & Sachs two-stroke single used by Messerschmitt. He built some eleven variants between 1952 and 1958, negotiating licensing agreements with builders in Germany, France, Switzerland, Holland and Indonesia. But Brütsch was an entrepreneur, not an engineer, and his plastic hockey puck had a fatal flaw. Mechanical bits were simply bonded to the bodywork, which meant the vehicle's lifespan could be counted in days. Licensee Harald Friedrich hired Tatra's Hans Ledwinka to make his Spatz roadworthy, Jean Avot of Avolette turned to Victor Bouffort, whose design Brütsch had cribbed in the first place. Builders seldom managed to turn out more than a handful of cars before giving up completely, with accusations and lawsuits to follow. In the Spatz case, Ledwinka did a major rework, adding a central tube frame, strut suspension, hydraulic brakes and a fourth wheel. With so little remaining of the original design, Friedrich stopped paying royalties. Brütsch sued and lost, the judge declaring the original design a menace to society. But whose display is pictured here? The licensing offer on the windscreen reads Brütsch Sport 3 Places 3 Roues - License à Vendre Tous Pays (illegible). But according to Jan de Lange's Microcars Stories, the cars Avolette displayed at the 1955 Paris Salon were Brütsch Zwergs anyway.
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nice pic barry - never seen that one before