RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on March 05, 2015, 09:50:05 AM
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As the subject of screen washers has come up on another thread I thought I would start a separate discussion.
Question.... What are the legal requirements regarding washers on cars that were not originally fitted with them?
Question.... Hand operated wipers. If a car was originally fitted with electric wipers , would the later substituting of them with a hand operated wiper system be illegal? A weird question I know but this one has an impact on something I'm working on
Question, What about cars with perspex windscreen? Must they have wipers?
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That's a discussion that recently came up on an Isetta Facebook page.
If the car requires an MOT, then unless the windscreen is removeable in some way and had wipers fitted as standard, then you must have washers for it to get a valid MOT. Even a squeezy bottle jury rigged up with a hose routed to the screen suffices.
Many years ago I recall one Isetta owner who managed to convince an MOT tester his Isetta had a removable windscreen, as it moved with the door. I think that's pushing it a bit though.
Some windscreens are exempt. Very small windscreens e.g. fly screens don't require wipers and washers. A good modern example is the new Morgan three wheeler. It's considered you can peep over these if required, so even if soiled you should still be able to see the road ahead clearly.
Personally I think a washers are a sensible addition if you're planning on using the car a lot on the road.
Can't recall any law about how wipers are powered, so hand worked items should be fine, so long as they can clear the screen adequately.
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Hmmm, that is food for thought as my windscreen is removable by six screws.
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I do not think the MOT specifies how the wipers are powered. If they did Ford Pops would be off the road! They need to work and leave the screen clear to see through. That is where plastic screens fail. Unless it is a wind defector -wind screen, clue was in the name, before the screen became a fixed ancillary, it will have to have an effective method to keep it clear. So a Messerschmitt sport does not have a windscreen. Its a wind deflector. So is a Brooklands style aeroscreen. A folding screen should get away with it too, but that is mostly Classic car territory and some are used in conjunction with Brooklands screens.
One of the few back dated rules is, if it has wipers, it has to have washers. But washers can be pipped down the wiper blade and not be that visible. On Schmitts some of us are in the habit of mounting the washer through the top right headlight adjusting mount bolt hole. Its virtually invisible, no extra holes. A Tunnock Teacake for the owner of every car where the tester squirts himself.
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A piece of string going out of the drivers side and back-in through the passengers side, attached to a wiper blade - in a loop' works quite well and can be operated by either left or right hand (or the passenger). ...Officer :)
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Where is a happy dog when you need one? The Boshton Terrier, possibly.
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"A Tunnocks Teacake for the owner of every car where the tester squirts himself"
Yep, done that, where do I collect my tea cake?
You may have guessed this question is in connection with Tourettes [not the disease!]
The cars had a ghastly wiper set up! A complete wiper mechanism from a Standard 8 or 10 is under the dash and crudely bonded to the body. Worst still the shaft protrudes through the bodywork exactly in the line where the screen frame seal joins the main body thus ensuring that rain water is certain to come gushing through when driving in the raid. Its all very Heath Robinson.. What with the screen surround its self being a terrible fit, you can see why I'm going my own way here cant you.
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Been there done that with the string in one window out the other . One night out at Bath Rally Mike shepherd and I took a trip into Bath in a Bond B and it poured down and the wiper failed. Bob you could do it the Gordon way ;) the wiper is at the top and through the screen surround
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Always good fun to set the squirters to the pavement when doing a parade through the streets - oh how we laughed ;D
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Sounds odd. Surely a arm on the wiper spindle and a link to the motor solves a poor positional problem. Common enough and if the motor is hidden, who knows.
I would like one of those spinning discs they have on boats. No wiper needed. Unless its a pentigraphic wiper. Oooo!
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If you can easily see round or over the windscreen without moving your body more than a few degrees either way from vertical, then no washer or wiper is legally necessary. Basically read this as if you can move only your head & neck & see perfectly round & over the screen and still keep hands & feet properly on the controls, then you're ok.
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Been there done that with the string in one window out the other . One night out at Bath Rally Mike shepherd and I took a trip into Bath in a Bond B and it poured down and the wiper failed. Bob you could do it the Gordon way ;) the wiper is at the top and through the screen surround
Well yes, I plan to put the shaft through the lower screen frame/panel in one corner.
Here is a pic of the original shaft position. Then the Bobette screen frame with space at the bottom corners for a new position. I think a motor will foul the dash board even if turned upside down.
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Took a wshile to work out what was going on here. It two different vehicles.
So on the original they managed leave no obvious place to put the wiper. It could possibly just take a unit from a goggo with its link bar. The coupe does this from inside, the saloon outside. The advantage is it was assumed if you got into difficulty you unlimbered the rod to power only the drivers wiper, in snow for instance. By adjusting the rod you cam aim the wiper inboard a bit in there sweep. Untidy when parked. What is really wanted is semaphore wipers, which are handed and park in the middle. That moves the two shafts toward the outside of the screen. Have not the makings of that but somewhere I have NOS period style Simca wiper motors with a lever and ball fitting that would make the basis of such a system.
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This is what it says in the msva manual not much really
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What's the top of the screen like bob ? Does it need an mot or exempt ?
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surely whats necessary for an MOT and whats a legal requirement are not the same thing are they ? that form says an awful lot !! we really needed page 26 as well . None of this addresses an older vehicle . It has to be able to fold away from screen ! a certain speed !! some old ones are painfully slow till they warm up ooh eck :-\
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This is my motor , 2 1/2" tall and 3 1/2" wide
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What's the top of the screen like bob ? Does it need an mot or exempt ?
Its like this. There is not a lot of room and if in the future I go for a hood any motor going through it would foul the hood I think.
The car is MOT exempt.
Bare in mind when looking at the photo, the windscreen rubber takes up a lot of the width of that flat area.
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I think I wouldn't bother with a wiper then , can't imagine your going to take it out in rain any way , or make a manual one for the top of the screen , or even a fake one if your worried about Mr police man , just to make it look right
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oh and that sheet did say "automatic " so not hand then . My point was that there are rules quite seperate from MOT'S and what are they ?
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I think I will stick to my original plan and fit a manual wiper through the botton corner of the screen surround in between those two rubbers.
Als motor and lever under the dash would work if there were room, there is a bonded plywood stiffener under there which gets in the way of most things. Will have to stick my head under and access the situation.
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I know it may seem a bit leftfield, but if you only want a slow wiper, how about using a radio control servo. It's fairly easy to link that to a small microcontroller, so that it will sweep back and forth at a certain rate, and the unit's are tiny so can easily be tucked away. Self parking too.
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HI Andy. I have no idea what a radio control servo is or a micro controler for that matter. I have used all period parts so far with the exception of an electric fuel valve. Do I want any fancy electronics? Not if I can help it. Maybe as a last resort.
I'm still curious to know what they are though.
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A servo is a geared motor with positional feedback. Radio control or hobby servos can operate over a 180 degree arc with a pulse width signal. A micro controller is basically a computer on a chip. They're in everything these days.
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Are any of these innovations standing at the next election? Its either that or UKIP!
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Do what, Al?
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Radio controlled MPs. Got to be a better way to run the thing, and cheaper. This technology used to be expensive and unobtainable. Now it is pretty accessible. If your over a certain age it is truly remarkable.
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No doubt they'd be equipped with 'whip' aerials.
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UKIP's scale model of the British Empire could be interesting. Pity the David Millipede, so many legs, but it still cannot stand up.
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Well, as you can see I took the plunge and fitted the manual wiper. It works well, has intermittent wipe, multi speeds and can seat in any position I desire. Also has no drain on the electrical system! I dont understand why all wipers are not like this! ;D
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Top job , can a washer jet be mounted on the wiper some how ?
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Lovely job :) had something like it on the Mark A Bonds . Never saw the problem with a chrome standard washer jet , it's what all cars were fitted with on production or soon after ;)
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Looks like it belongs, Lovely job.
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nice job 8) - patent office next ? - unless you borrowed the idea :o
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Thanks for the encouragement chaps. That wiper kit was supplied by a boat chandlers but came with a straight blade. I had to make adaptations to fit a tex curved blade to it but all worked out fine. Its kind of appropriate really as the screen is also from a boat!
I could attach a plastic hose and jet to the wiper arm but to do that I would either have to drill a hole in the dash plinth and screen frame or else have the hose in full view coming from under the dash, around the frame side and onto the wiper arm. I think a tiny chrome bonnet mounted jet is less obtrusive personally. Both surviving original Progress cars have the chrome jet albeit retro fitted so I'm going for that.
One problem I hit was that most of the sellers of the jets dont mention the hose size so I ended up with a 3mm jet and 4mm hose and washer kit. Overcome this by finding a reducer connector on ebay. Job now remaining to getting the car out of the garden! Anyone got a crane? ;D
http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/manual-hand-operated-windscreen-wipers/hand-operated-manual-windscreen-wiper-kit-717001
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That's the same as I done with the reducer , if it's man power you need to get it out the garden I will help
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What a pa-lava!
Just thought I would take ten minutes off work this afternoon to fit the jet. Two unanticipated hurdles to overcome. One, the body shell thickness is particularly thick where I chose to locate the jet so the threaded section barely showed through to get the nut on. Two, the nozzle came through so that its tight up against the edge of the plywood body stiffener. Got there eventually with the aid of my trusty miniture sanding drum on Drimel.
Isnt it often the same, the tiny jobs can take hours! ::)
Thanks for the offer of manpower Steve. I decided to build a frame to bolt to the chassis so I can tip the car up sideways and with wheels attached at 90 degrees to the frame roll her down the side way nice and slowly. Screen removed first of course. Will this project ever end? Its only taken 8 years! ;D
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That's nothing Bob ;)