RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on December 11, 2012, 11:38:06 PM
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After all my efforts rebuilding my 9E I attempted to start it on the bench today , all temporarily wired and fueled, it has a great spark and good compression but It coughs and splats and will not run. Timing is spot on. I can only imagine its the carb, its one that had stood for years, I have cleaned it as best I can but maybe there is a passageway blocked somewhere. Any Villiers 25S carb experts out there? What should I be looking at?
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You'll probably baulk at doing this yourself, but I once had a Ford Zephyr 6 on the banger track which had been standing for 27 years and which was refusing to start. It was displaying the same symptoms as you. We got it running perfectly by advancing the ignition about 2 degrees from standard and then cranked it over whilst emptying a tin of easystart down the air filter and when it catched, keep on squirting it continuously whilst totally flooring the throttle for about two minutes or as long as you can stand the pain. It might sound (and was) brutal, but as I said, it ran perfectly after that for the rest of the time the car existed, and the total time messing about getting it to run was about seven minutes after 27 years standing....
N.B. I take no responsibility in anyone trying the above with a road car!
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After all my efforts rebuilding my 9E I attempted to start it on the bench today , all temporarily wired and fueled, it has a great spark and good compression but It coughs and splats and will not run. Timing is spot on. I can only imagine its the carb, its one that had stood for years, I have cleaned it as best I can but maybe there is a passageway blocked somewhere. Any Villiers 25S carb experts out there? What should I be looking at?
I learnt a great trick for cleaning carbs, I tried it out on one of the moped carbs and it works a treat! Helps if you clean as much as you can, speeds up the process, but sounds like you already have.
Take an old pan, like the one you boil eggs with, and fill it about 1/5 lemon juice, and about 2/5 water.
Start putting it on the hob, on high, while you dismantle the carb. Remove all rubber parts, you could damage them. Also, I have to say this process removes paint, so if you have a metal air filter you wanted to degrease, either don;t, or it will need a respray.
When you're done, put all of the non rubber parts of the carburettor in the pan. Best results when "violently boiling" but of course contorl the heat to not boil over.
After about 10 minutes (mine was quite crappy), have a look at it (yours may take 5 minutes if it's already been cleaned), and if it seems OK, rinse in water (with washing up liquid to remove all of the lemon juice). It should look matt aluminium colour.
Result in a picture: http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/13/39/38/65/125_xl64.jpg
(http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/13/39/38/65/125_xl64.jpg)
Hope it helps, JP
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looks great but what ever was in the other 2/5 !
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Photoshop?
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no idea but if i had your address you could try mine - with you in a couple of days
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I assume you have an exhaust on it. Two strokes like exhausts to make the piston into a good pump. But crappy carbs are common. They get glazed in evaporated fuel etc. It is not always possible to chase out the drilled passages with fuse wire to ensure they are clear, likewise an airline. I like to do this even if I have cleaned the carb by one of the recognized methods. It is amazing the amount of muck that can come out. The acidic/caustic treatments loosens the muck up for sure. Lemon is a usefully mild easy to obtain option. Indeed perhaps preferred to Villit Bang for two stroke engines.
What is the idea. Use the Villiers in place of the yuletide fire over Christmas?
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Thanks for the tips lads. It does have an exhaust pipe on it but not a silencer yet as I have yet to build it, that was my next job untill this faulure ground me to a halt. Do you think the extra length of a silencer would make any difference? I've have plenty of motors of this type fired up with no silencer before so I dont think its that though it did cross my mind.
Can you still buy Easystart Stuart? [nice to hear from you again by the way] I havnt seen it in years.
I did boil my carb in vinegar for a few minutes,
I hadnt heard of using lemon juice though, could be worth a try.
I think I have everything connected correctly, I'm turning the crank clockwise looking at the fan[on the right side]. timing 11/64ths before TDC. forward running points being the ones on the right side of the plate set at 20thou.
Thanks for the offer Richard. I will email you.
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Offerred carb 8 am accepted by 9 posted by 10 the systems working - let's just hope the carb is , ho- ho.it should be with you sat/mon the man said by way spell check calls it a crab !
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Just noticed there is a bond minicar complete exhaust on eBay.
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If its that pretty grotty one too small for bob I think
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Hi Bob
You mentioned the dreaded word VINEGAR in your cleaning operations - never used vinegar because it is a corrosive agent and although it will clean up the aluminium bits on the carb - but leaving some deposits - it corrodes all of the steel parts on the carb - I had to renew Marcus's carb which he "cleaned" with vinegar and I had to replace all af the steel parts some like the spring had virtually disintegrated. I used the old fashoned way of cleaning the carb Petrol and compressed air once having stripped it all down - where did you get the idea of cleaning it with vinegar - out of a boys book of how to save money???
Mike
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Evidently , vinegar is good on crabs?
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Hi Mike. Vineger will do that if you leave it in for any length of time, after all it is acid. I had good results with it on my moped carbs, I neutralise it afterwards with a detergeant. I use the quick boil method, you have to remember mike that I dismantle and clean ancient machinery for a living, have done for thirtyfive years, Marcus can be excused for doing it wrong and messing up his carb on account of him only being a uke player! ;) ;) :D :D
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Well spotted Malcolm. These things always turn up too late having just forked out for a new Greeves pipe and the materials to make the silencer.
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Root tells me Greeves were primarily I.C. manufacturers, so should you be using that, Bob.
Dare I mention Caustic Soda. A mean cleaner but get it wrong and you have no carb left! Also its effect is dependant on the alloy mix and cheapo stuff is quite interesting. Like salt on a slug.
The challenge is normally to get rid of the glaze. I find petrol alone not to effective. With some agitation it will clear but it often needs a bit of a nudge. The problem with a really clean carb is it then corrodes so I prefer mine to be a bit oily. In some bubble installations not a great problem as they are self basting anyway.
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Worry not my friends, SUCCESS ar last, I wandered into the workshop this morning and had a look with fresh eyes, last night I was cold and tired. It suddenly occured to me that in my temporary set up the condenser was not earthed! What tricked me was that it was sparking last night but once the condenser was earthed the spark was more solid and with the first spin it was away and deafened me in the process. Its always something silly isnt it! Now to make a silencer!
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When you get mine on saturday morning you can try it for me . Tune it up for me eh .
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Will do, and it will be on ebay by Saturday night! :D :D
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Root tells me Greeves were primarily I.C. manufacturers, so should you be using that, Bob.
Dare I mention Caustic Soda. A mean cleaner but get it wrong and you have no carb left! Also its effect is dependant on the alloy mix and cheapo stuff is quite interesting. Like salt on a slug.
The challenge is normally to get rid of the glaze. I find petrol alone not to effective. With some agitation it will clear but it often needs a bit of a nudge. The problem with a really clean carb is it then corrodes so I prefer mine to be a bit oily. In some bubble installations not a great problem as they are self basting anyway.
Greeves also made great trials bikes and roadster for that matter. I love the leading link forks.
AC also made Crriages but I wouldnt say no to a free Cobra! ;D
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Best nip off to your local injin restaurant- ice cold cobra with your balti mmmm will keep an eye on ebay bob :)
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Not sure about the petite but vernons invacar and gordon have leading links bob I can see you getting one one day bob
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My friend Steve Ralling has a Greeves - attached photo. His dad was a Director at Greeves.
They made some fantastic bikes and developed a new 380cc for the authorities (not sure which one) to a demanding spec. They changed their mind and bought Suzuki instead. The rest is history.
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You can see me getting one? I have already owned two, One I exported as far away as possible , the other I broke for parts for proper microcars! Best thing for them really! :D :D
That one is a bit too late for me Barry. I prefer the more classic look of this roadster.
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Leading Link Forks? Sounds more like a nudge, nudge, wink, wink for the multi pronged. Personally I prefer Leading Link Sausages and it shows. Ooo err, missus!
My mate was a Director at BMC, Cowley. He worked in the car park. He was fired for often having a rest and was history! OK your chum is better than mine!
From the mundane contracts do the interesting machines grow. You cannot have Cobra without the IC etc. to fund it. Greeves was perhaps the same. There are many other cases. Thank goodness for that, though, as we would be short of interesting toys. Then I think, is this sort of thing still going on. Not so much? If so another advantage to being older.
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Im fine with that so long as its me that get the Cobra and you the IC's. :D
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I decided to clean the Bianchi carb with the lemon juice trick I mentionned earlier, you can see how well it works!
I have to say that I only had half the amount of lemon juice needed, we ran out ;)
I also decided to put a bit of washing up liquid, because one website said that, and I reccomend you dont... You can only boil it on low, it works a lot better on high, but with soap it foams up and boils over, so don't use soap!
Anyway, here are the images!
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more...
After the lemon juice treatment,m its covered in some sort of black stuff. I just used some "truck wash" stuff we have (called engine degreaser, but its actually very concentrated degreasing soap!), and very fine wire wool. Took maybe 10 minutes to "polish" it, but I did take my time, and the outside never really has to look that good anyway, its just that you see it on the Bianchi :)
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Sorry for the 3 posts, but imited to 4 pics per post!
Last ones :)
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It looks good! Does it remove internal glaze though? I'm no chemist but lemon juice is acid, washing up liquid is I think alkali, put them together and they cancel each other out. That Carb looks identical to the one on my Motobi.
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It looks good! Does it remove internal glaze though? I'm no chemist but lemon juice is acid, washing up liquid is I think alkali, put them together and they cancel each other out. That Carb looks identical to the one on my Motobi.
Well, I didn't think of the reaction, but it seemed to work a treat, looks just as clean inside than outside!
It's a nice carb, wierd that its normal aluminium, carbs are usually darker. Also, the float was plastic! I've seen plastic ones before, but usually when they're doughnut shape, this was same shape as a schmitt, but plastic. Wierd, luckily its great condition!
I wont use washing up liquid anymore as I said it just foamed a lot!
I definitally reccomend the lemon juice trcik though, perfect for unblocking jets!