RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: Stuart Cyphus on July 20, 2008, 10:19:34 pm
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Currently on eBay. The first line states he's selling for a pal who has no interest in the vehicle. I bet he's got no interest in it now after he's ripped off it's original & rather rare three-number, one-letter number plate & no doubt sold it for thousands.... :'( >:(
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SCOOTACAR-microcar-bubblecar_W0QQitemZ150273510487QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150273510487&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
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Hi Stuart
Love the car, I have it on watch (but no dosh at mo)
What was the number ?
Are you going to the farm at the weekend?
If you havn;t got a lift I could pick you up Southampton if you can get to there?
Let me know
John
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Looks like 860W. A good plate. Shame...
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How does a car registered new in 1960 get assigned a number like that? I'm sure someone will enlighten me. What I dont like is the colour . These cars should be bright cheeky colours!
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Hello John, much ta for the lift offer :-* All being well we've got a van from work earmarked for us that weekend. Mind you, we said that last year only to have it whipped from under us at half past two on the Friday afternoon, leaving me to throw my tent in a rucksack & walk to Jean's. Watch this space......
Right then Bob, you may wish you'd never asked how a 1960 vehicle could have a number like 860 W by the time this life-long number plate buff has finished waffling on, but if we're all sitting comfortably, I'll begin....
Number plates were first issued in the UK in December 1903, in the format "A 1234" or "AA 1234". (contury to popular opinion, A 1 was not the very first plate to be issued, but that's another story) These single-letter-first & double-Letter-first formats were able to keep pace with rising vehicle registrations until some areas began reaching the high nine-thousand ranges early in the 1930s. These plates could only go as high as "AA 9999" so what was a county to do when it got there?
They introduced a third letter to produce AAA 123-format, that's what. The first such appering in March 1933. By the end of the '30s, most of the more populus areas had gone over to three-letter-three-number plates. Twenty years or so later, several areas were soon on the point of reaching AAA 999 in their series, so in mid 1953, some areas were given clearance to reverse their plates to give 123 AAA format, with other areas following as & when.
Such was the rise of popular motoring in the '50s & '60s, it took some areas such as Middlesex & Surrey to name but two, a scant ten years to reach 999 AAA, compared to the twenty years it had taken to exhaust the AAA 123 format. This put the local councils(No DVLA back then) in a right old tizzy as to what to do when the reverse format plates ran out, & so sat down to think.. Meanwhile time was running out in some areas, & so they began to issue 1234 AA format plates from about 1960 onwards. For some other very populus areas, even the reverse four-number, two-letter format was not enough to tide them over, & so seven areas reached absulute desparation point & began issuing the very last format of plates then avalible, the very rare single-letter-last plate such as this Scootacar had. Remember, there were only 9,999 possible plates left to issue in this last-ditch format.
Only seven Counties had to issue single-letter-last plates, being Staffordshire (E), Essex (F), Liverpool (K), Manchester (N), Derby (R), Leeds (U) & Sheffield (W) Then, in Febuary 1963 came the long-awaited salvation in the form of the year-letter, which allowed these seven counties to breath easy once again, being blanket-issued by all counties from January 1965 onwards regardless of if any county had actully ran out of non-year-letter plates or not.
Rather famously, a lot of Scottish areas had never even got as far as issuing AAA 123-format plates by January 1965, therefore all those unissued three-letter, three-number Scotish plates were to gain a new lease of life from August 1983 onwards, as "Age-Related" plates for all those old cars which had lost their original number somehow.
Then in about 2006, some areas had even started to run out of these Scottish age-related plates, and so the DVLA now delves into the large stock of "reversed" 123 AAA format plates whic several counties never originally issued. These new AR plates can always be identified by always having an "X" as it's first letter. When you get your Inter registered, it will have a plate reading "123 XAA".
But I digress. As can be seen, number plate formates through the ages went full circle, as in; A 1234, AA 1234, AAA 123, 123 AAA, 1234 AA & finally 1234 A before the new AAA 123A series of 1963. There really isn't very many single-letter-last plates left any more, and even fewer still on the original vehicle it was issued to. I've been hunting such a plate for my own collection for years now but with no joy. Therefore if anyone has an ORIGINAL single-letter-last plate from one of the above-mentioned areas cluttering up their shed, I am in the market for it. Best price paid....
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Think the number was in fact 3311 W , shame either way!
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Would'nt be important for me the number plate. I love the scootacar ,and i would like to get hold of one!
Fantastic machine anyway mates!!
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Thanks for that Stuart, I nearly nodded off half way but stuck with it! I'm actually with Ferdi on this one, I dont give a tinkers cuss about number plates, [ though I must stress I'm not in the habit of selling them!] its the vehicle that is important, not something the government sticks on it to allow you to use the thing. I dare say i'm in the minority with this opinion.
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I only mentioned that, coz it does'nt matter in Germany if the car still have the genuine Number plate. Once described the car was brought from the UK, you'll get german plates
although i do guess, former plates are important for the cars history, matters not its whereabouts.
All the best to all of you,
Ferdi
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I know a lot of people prefer to have an original Car with the original Plates, but I agree that if push comes to a shove, I would not reject a car because the plates are not original. It is nice to have them, but not essential. Of course as long as you know what the original number was (is) the provenance is still intact. In Illinois even if the vehicle is re-registered with Antique Plates (over 20 years old) it is still legal to drive on the "original" plates as long as the Antique Plates are carried in the vehicle. The original plates, as far as the State is concerned, could of course be any plate assigned at any time by a foreign nation, or a correct year plate even if not original to the car. Besides that, most law enforcement are more interested in looking at the car, than checking the validity of some non-descript overseas plate. Ian.
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Thats interesting Ian. Over hear there is no variation in these laws from county to county. The police will enjoy having a good look and chat about the car and THEN nick you ! I jest! Most are quite simpathetic towards classic car owners. Twenty years old and antique? What happen to the traditional definition of 100 years? At this rate my cat qualifies!
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To me in Britain its a bit different,i like these vehicles because of their place in history,and part of that history is the plate they were given 50 years ago,not one dumped on it after someone has made a quck buck selling off our heritage.
My 1959 Reliant Regal van is 7445 E,another single letter plate,and Stuart has still not stopped trying to get me to sell him one of them! ;D
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Hi Dan. Havnt heard from you for a while. I knew a number plate debate would get you involved! Didnt know you had another early Reliant?
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Thats interesting Ian. Over hear there is no variation in these laws from county to county. The police will enjoy having a good look and chat about the car and THEN nick you ! I jest! Most are quite simpathetic towards classic car owners. Twenty years old and antique? What happen to the traditional definition of 100 years? At this rate my cat qualifies!
Hello Bob: The Yanks are peculiar in their definitions. The 100 year rule is usually mucked around with. Furniture etc is usually called antique if it is 50 years old. Cars in Illinois qualify for Antique Plates if they are over 25 years old ( I made a mistake and previously said 20 years, but it is twenty-five...Wow!!!). A normal car registration costs $78 per year, but Antique Plates are bought for five year expiration at only $6.00 per year ($30.00). You are only meant to drive the vehicle on rallies, to and from shows, and for repair and road-testing, and as we all know, they need to be tested every day. Also in the part of Illinois that I am in, there is no equivalent of any roadworthy inspections or MoT. You just need the plates and insurance. Ian.
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What , you mean that the rules differ even within the same State? About the antique rule, I've worked in the antiques industry all my life and I have noticed that the yanks are changable. If I want to buy something from them and its 25 years old "its a rare antique" , if however I'm selling them something thats circa 1910 they declare "Oh its not even antique yet!" Still the times they are a changing, I spent the first thirty years sending stuff over the pond, now the dollar is monopoly money I'm slowly buying it all back! Its a funny old world. I like the idea of no MOT testing for old cars, its been suggested here for veteran stuff because firstly the testers dont really know what they are looking at and secondly you cannot apply twentyfirst century technology to ancient vehicles.
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Hey Bob: In the area that I live in in Illinois, (Kankakee County), there is no Mot equivalent for any cars or light trucks (up to 12,000 lb), whether they are old or new. Some areas do have yearly checks for safety and pollution, but not here. School busses and trucks over 12,000 lb do have a yearly safety check State-wide. Some Cities and Counties even have their own extra permit fees for vehicles, but not here in hicksville. It is different over here. The joys of living in a small country town. Ian. ;D
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I'm strongly conciering going there myself.......
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Hi Stuart. Are you telling me that you still havnt got that Mini Comtesse MOTed? Get your finger out boy! Hey, I just looked at the weather forcast and its heavy rain at Hawkwnbury this sunday. If it doesnt change the Torpedo will not be launched!
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Hi Bob,yes im still lurking about lol! i now own what is believed to be the sole surviving mk4 Regal van,only 342 were built,mine is the 324th.
Also getting a Bug soon ;D
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I'm strongly conciering going there myself.......
As I've said before, you're more than welcome. I also don't feel so bad now missing Jean's on Sunday, for the weather here will probably be in the nineties and sunny. Top down and away we go. That way I wont miss the farm auction with the old number plates for you Stuart.
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Stuart, thanks for your number plate info, I am not that interested in them, but had always wondered why they varied. My Trojan has its original number 553 DUF. I like this number, I am glad it IS correct, but would not let the number influence a purchase
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While we all got involved in a debate about how terrible it is that this Scootacar has the wrong bit of ali with numbers on it we missed something far more fundamental, has this car got the correct engine? In the picture we see the tin cooling shroud of an 11e not the 9e and as I recently learned, only the mk2 should have an 11e. Nicked from a conveyence? I wonder which is the more serious crime according to the law of Cyphus?
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You can source a correct enough motor given time. The plate's gone forever... My Heinkel had it's plate stolen. They're never the same.... :'(
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Does this obsession with numbers not extend to engine numbers, after all, is not the engine number also part of the vehicles history? Personaly I would rather have something with the original engine than a number plate. I guess the debate will continue forever. I dare say at some time in the future the government will electronicly tag all the cars and take away all the number plates and the number freaks will be looking for tall buildings to jump from! Thats after the government tires of making money out of selling them of course!
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What????!!!!! £5,500.00? Has the world gone mad?
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very clearly becoming a rich mans pursuit this microcar malarky :(
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£5.5k? It's all to do with rarity. I think it's cheap compared to a decent KR which should fetch 15k on a good day.
I mean I cannot remember when the last Mk1 running Scootacar has come up. But there's been plenty of KR's,Tro's and Isettas.
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Would like to purchase one Bob! :(
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I wish I had hung on to mine a bit longer too Ferdi !
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If I had a pound for every time one of us said "I wish I did this" or "I wish I'd done that" (me included) I'd have more cars than Bruce Weiner!
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If I had a pound for every time one of us said "I wish I did this" or "I wish I'd done that" (me included) I'd have more cars than Bruce Weiner!
I thought you already did Mike!
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Yep, me too blob, but it collapse on money though.
Anyway, im happy with my cars i do own !
Ferdi