RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: barchetta on February 05, 2010, 06:23:06 pm
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-500-D-1964-SUICIDE-DOOR-BODY-SHELL-EXTREMELY-RARE_W0QQitemZ200436264151QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2eaaeeacd7
The "anything related to messerschmitt costs a lot of money" disease is spreading to the Fiat 500 community...
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I don't see anything in the listing referring to Messerschmitt. :-\
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No , its just that the heights that most schmitt prices command ( or are listed on ebay at ) seem to have rubbed off on the little fiats,,,,,this shell is priced £7,000 more than my friend paid for a tidy suicide door fiat 500 taxed and mot'd
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Dave, whilst I have your attention, as a Fiat man, Have you heard of any problems in registering Zastaza [fiat 600's] in the uk? I have seen a few on ebay and they appear to be a bargain, is there a catch?
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If Zastava's are problimatic, it might help to list them on paper as Yugo's as then officialdom will have heard of those & have records..... Maybe?
Is a 1972 Fiat 500 windscreen worth owt to anyone? Plus steering column & most of a black interior? All left over from the one we had which rusted away in the early '80s. If no offers, the screen will be heading to Beaulieu Autojumble in May....
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Blimey that's quite a price!
In the mid 80s I did a tour in Yugoslavia (as it was then) and saw millions of Zastavas, which I had never heard of before. Mostly 600s, but also a Lada Riva style car (ex Fiat 124?) and the Zastava Yugo which was like the old Simca 1100s that sold a few in UK.
I have to say the style of driving and airliner piloting over there made Italians seem extremely tame!
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I dont know that Zastavas ARE problematic to register, it just occured to me that its getting impossible to find a sound bodied Fiat 600 these days, with a zastava you get the same cute body shape but with no rot plus the benifits of a 750 engine [I think]. Also according to my little Serbian friend they are very reliable and go on forever with good parts availability. I think I have just talked myself into getting one!
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The only problem with Zastavas, from my experience, is that they only have a 2 speed gearbox. Park or H.S.M.*
*Homicidal Suicidal Maniac.
I think the 5oo is a nicer shape, but the 600 does have a bit more room and performance. They must be tough little cookies because they survive drivers over there. Sometimes they do drive on the road (if there us a road) but diversions onto embankments and fields, and through quarries and building sites are normal overtaking manouevers.
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That shell does seem very expensive. I must admit I thought Fiat 500s were in the lead with Schmitts on price increases but I stand to be corrected as I have not really watched closely. I find Fiat 500s to suffer a little from VW Beetle disease in that many owners want to buy an image not a piece of automotive engineering and do not research the subject. In this new world of Microcars going to investors perhaps I cannot throw stones but when you own something like a Wiensburg Coupe and Middle Barton - the 'experts' and most Fiat owners have never heard of it you kind of think 'what the hell is going on here'. In the same vane I have a Fiat Jolly. How do you access records for these cars? I know its genuine but Fiat supplied cars to Ghia (was it, my brain fails) who converted them. It seems, therefore, that Fiat do not differentiate a Jolly from the production run of standard cars. I have not tried Ghia yet but of course they have been bought and sold a few times so there is every chance the records have been destroyed. Most Jollys were built to order so if the records exist then I should be able to find out which spec it should be and who it was supplied to. Is there someone who has a register or holds information on Jollys out there?
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320447520387&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D320447520387%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
Make of this what you will. Quick T-cut and free off the brakes it is not... I have a genuine '64 595SS Abarth racer in my collection...
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Nice!
A few years ago a Black 500 Abarth with 600 engine (and concommittant open boot lid!) visited the motorcycle shop in our yard. I went over to gaze at this lovely car and the owner came over and we chatted about them. He then said something like "have you ever seen such a small car?" It would have been rude not to invite him round the corner to have a look at a proper micro! When he saw DUF, my Trojan, his jaw dropped, and being Italian a stream of delighted expletives poured out of him, but I declined all his purchase offers!
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Do you think the advent of the new 500 could have awakened an interest in the real ones that otherwise would not have happend, hence a fresh demand and increased prices?
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Is the Pope....bear....woods?!
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Ref the Zastava enquiry,,,, I had one up to about 5 years ago ( i did chauffeur the current ICR chairman about in it on the saturday run to the midland railway museum.... was this from Southwell racecourse? )
The problems with registering mine;
It had no import papers as it was bought over by an Army captian from the former Yugoslavia,,, he didn't have to stop at Dover customs .
It had no documentation or number plates.i worked out it was a 1982 model, as it had plastic hubcaps and an Alternator.
I emailed the Zastava works for year of manufacture information ,They didn't reply ,hardly surprising as the RAF had flattened 75% of the factory during the Bosnian conflict ,not sure if the Yugo 45's being made at the time were WMD,they were a dodgy driver though.
I ended up paying the customs the VAT on my receipt from the Army captain,,,about 35 quid ,and ended up with a Q plate.DVLA man came and had a chat as he needed to inspect it ,That was when he travelled to you.
(Incidentally i was offered an old logbook for a Fiat 600D , but wanted to keep it genuine.)
Bit of good news,,, parts are very cheap,its a bit of a game getting them from Bosnia ,how about a set of 4 wheel cylinders, a master cylinder and 4 flexi brake pipes for £22.00... Water pump was from Middle Barton Garage in Oxfordshire,they know what Fiat 600 parts will fit.
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Here's a pic of my old one Bob....
As for Jollys there is a US contact,,,,, Fiat Jolly Register, 3012 Ardsley Dr., Orlando, FL 32804 USA
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Thanks for the info Dave. So if one comes up with documentation there should be no problem then?
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For Cinquecento fans: Bromley pageant of Motoring 2009
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Bob,
no problems with registering a car of that age, mine was probably the 'worst case' no docs, no import papers,etc , obviously if you have documentation then an age related number will be gained rather than a Q ,( unless you have the special offer £250 secret handshake with the DVLA !!! ) These cars look 60's but are made much later than you think.
However have you heard this or is it an Urban myth ?,,,, a man tried to import 5 trabbies into the UK,DVLA turned them down because of the smokey nature of the two stroke engine . more likely they weren't 'personal imports'
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Hi Dave. Thanks . I may look out for one, I didn't know the story of the trabbies. Tell us more. Talking of smokey things I saw you ex Puch yesterday, Steve can be a bit of a Neanderthal at times, he had jet washed it without protecting the electrics and now wonders why it doesn't start! Still, so long as it drys out in time for the Daffodil dash we will be ok.
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At NMCR 2008 I enjoyed Jim Jamieson's fiery Trabbi display!
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It is alledged that DVLA refuse to register Trabbies as they fail to comply with emissions regulations. No idea if this is true or if it is date related as the rules change for older cars. I would think a P50 would be OK but I could see probs with a very late stroker. It was this story that began the worry of strokers being banned on masse. So maybe it is mainly a scare story. Anyone know for sure?
The Jolly link is one I have come across and the trail seems to have gone dry about 4 years ago. I will try again. Likewise I will try Fiat again before attempting Ghia. I see there is a reasonable Autobainchi Cabriolet for sale in Belgium, nice little car and perhaps the most useful poser mouse derivative even without an Abarth mod. Some time away from sorting the Jolly as other projects to do first but I think it is complete and not rusty.
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........ because of the smokey nature of the two stroke engine .....
I have used a 50:1 synthetic oil mix in my Trabbie for over five years now. When first started after sitting winter, even after stirring the petroil, it smokes for three minutes until warmish, then absolutely no smoke. After sitting a few days, for the first minute or so, smoke, then none. Occassionally when lugging up a hill, before changing down gear, a puff of smoke. Four others I know, also do not smoke apart from one, but he uses regular oil and 30:1 and it even sprays oil out of the tail-pipe, but he keeps it as is, for as he claims "authenticity". Just don't follow too close! ;D Ian
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I am probably wrong but my guess is that excessive smokiness is already covered in MOT test legislation for the type and age of car/engine* so it is probable that no other legislation would have been superimposed, government law officers hate extra work. Certainly when I registered my Velorex and paid the import duty etc about 6 years ago, the question of emissions did not arise at all, nor a DVLA test, but a Trabbi's 4th wheel might prompt a test even though they are relatively well known; exotic 3 wheelers by pass a lot of laws!
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MOT test does not really test two stroke emissions on classics. I have not heard of anyone failing for being smokey. I have gain MOTs on cars with duff oil seals. I have not tried a 'modern' stroker through the system. I think it more likely you would get pulled by the police for smoke than the MOT man but what law they might be able to apply I am not sure. Test case would be to drive round central London I think.
Trabbies and fuel - East German fuel was pretty low octane stuff - 87 rings a bell - and probably with minimal additives. The two stroke would have been pretty similar to the '50's stuff so had to be in a reasonably high ratio. Hey presto the smokey Trabbies as filmed in Berlin traffic after the wall fell. The performance on this mix was poor with many cars struggling to achieve 55MPH. Once fed on British fuel and modern two strokes for a bit the fuel system and engine deposits were cleared out and with carbon cleared out of the exhaust and ports the same car would do a none smokey 70 plus MPH. It was in this form I used to sell them and got good money over sluggardly stuff not sorted out. Cannot comment on best mix for Trabbies now, I stuck to the book values. It would be interesting to have a clean, modern fueled Trabbie in tune tested for emissions. My feeling is it would not be as bad as people might think but the presentation of ill prepared cars spoiled the game for all it seems.
So we are left with Marcus' observation that the Velorex was passed without comment despite them being later construction than they look whereas people have had probs with their Trabbies. Don't no.
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Actually I put an asterisk in my previous post, but forgot to add the asterisked phrase, being that the law is pretty lax for two strokes, saying that it must not produce smoke which the MOT tester considers to be noticeably excessive for the type of vehicle/engine.
Therefore if your KR, Trabbie, Velorex or Royal Oilfield produces roughly the same amount of smoke as any other with around 25 to 1 (normal when the law was passed) then it passes. If it makes a choking black cloud of oily smoke it will be a visually obvious failure, everything else is (or certainly used to be) down to how strict or relaxed the tester is.