RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on October 23, 2010, 07:38:31 pm
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Just the thing for anyone suffering from Peeless envy
http://www.peelengineering.co.uk/store_cat.php?peelstore=4 (http://www.peelengineering.co.uk/store_cat.php?peelstore=4)
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Is there a guarantee that only 50 are to be made? If more get done then it undermines the first production as in limited edition prints. I prefer an investment with reducing or static numbers of examples as there as at least some stability. Besides I rather like having stuff other people have not got so more of a car is a disincentive on that level as well. When people buy something for the need to own it and join a clan you know it is time to find something else to do really. Still it will be interesting to see how all this turns out.
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All the strutting, posing and bad acting on the Dragon's Den means that I can't bear to watch it, so maybe this question is misplaced: is there any evidence that the new Peel Engineering are actually building cars? It just seems curious that there is not one jot of information about any new cars or any new production - if there was something to report, I feel the website might be reporting it. Am I a cynic to suspect that most of the enterprise is a way of selling T-shirts and other merchandise?
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I wondered the same. I looked over the web site and couldn't find any tech spec for the cars they are trying to sell, things like what voltage, type of controller, battery type etc. Still I suppose the kind of buyers it will attract will be those that just want a static display car anyway.
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I suppose they do not need to specify anything, as they are "Peels". Not replica Peels, they are Peels. Apparently. Therefore all specs as per Peels. These "Peels" are also called "a piece of history". Hmm, it's not Friday but the fishmongers seem to be doing good business. However, the site does say that the edition is limited to 50 and only 21 remain available, so I assume that means that they have sold/accepted orders for 29. In the fullness of time this special edition of reel Peel replicas might even become valuable and a good investment.
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Don't believe the 21 remaining number. They can make up any number they want.
No one is going to audit their pre-sales.
As for building cars, they have claimed they are under some sort of 2 year exclusive contract with Ripleys and can only build and sell to them during that time.
When the contract started and ends is known only to them but it has been at least a year since they first delivered a car to Ripleys.
They apparently have several P50 replicas available for promotions (as anyone who saw Top Gear Australia noticed).
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I have sent them a message asking about the spec of the cars, I wouldnt want to buy an EV without knowing if it had lead acid or Lithium bats etc, also asked if they would be making no more Peels after the 50 had sold. Let see if we get an answer.
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the site says that that THIS limited edition is limited to 50. artists do this all the time as do mints, potteries etc. any further limited edition could be called The 2011 special edition or whateva ;)
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I reckon you may get an answer, but written carefully so that it appears to give information, but nothing is actually confirmed, defined or guaranteed.
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.... and i was told these "kind" of Peels are only 10 mph fast ? ? ?
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Well, some may disagree but in my view all Peels are useless but one that only does 10mph is more than useless!
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Well, some may disagree but in my view all Peels are useless but one that only does 10mph is more than useless!
Could this be why they are so desirable these days? Good old Thumper is a far better investment for participatory fun. To fast for Photo oppertunities though. I am so impressed with all this, as you are, that now I think I have a potential deal on my expanded Peel investment I will accept the confirmed offer. If so I can go and check out the Scootacar I know for as it is more useful and weird.
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Well, some may disagree but in my view all Peels are useless but one that only does 10mph is more than useless!
you mean LESS than useless?
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Worse than useless?!
(Will the Peel Mafia burn down my studio tonight?)
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or greater than ;)
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Worse than useless?!
(Will the Peel Mafia burn down my studio tonight?)
Ups, be careful Marcus !!! ;D
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You have to remember I'm an Essex boy, we have our own vernacular.
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Or 'less use than useless'. Nice symmetry, mmmm.
I thought Essex was a little height challenged for a Vernacular lift, even if it is more usefull than a Peel. Does this suggest that the electric Peel is as usefull as a Fenland Funicular lift? Now that is an invention I would be interested to see like Dave's solar powered submarine.
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Dear Al
I think you may have miss-heard Dave's statement in the defence review on Submarines. The latest sub (HMS Embarrassed) was testing the new wave energy system when it ran aground. To collect wave energy it has to travel on the surface, and not being able to put up a perisope caused the problem. The MOD will be adding an additional perisope out the underside to see what is below as well as above. Being able to travel along the surface and collect wave energy will make a huge saving for the Navy.
I hope this has been of assistance
Chris Thomas
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It all makes sense when you know!
I wonder if there was official comment on how useful the new Sub was. 'The Skye's the limit' was the answer.
I blame the use of a genuine Pilot Whale brain in the new biotronic navigation system.
Slightly worried by these developments as we now have a none submersible submersible on wave power as Chris has helpfully explained, aircraft carriers without aeroplanes which are to be scrapped as soon as the next one is available so that when the planes are actually ready we have no aircraft Carrier left. Does this mean we have the new energy efficient green destroyers which on declaration of war disintergrate into handy liferafts with return to China address labels on them? Mien Sweepers actually only on loan from Germany due to a spelling mistake on the procurement forms (same agent as supplied Chinooks that have the wrong chip in them and do not fly!)? Trident subs that are designed to not be found which get lost unless the send up one of those big flare thingies? Also it is planned to declare war on the Maldives as the Navy feels left out of fighting and blowing up innocent foreign Johnnys in general for thier own good and we cannot loose as the Maldives are going sink anyway due to global warming. America and China will help us by providing lots more pollution and not signing any green protocols as long as we buy their crappiest products with money we haven't got. I could go on and probably will but not now.
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I once worked at Vickers (sorry, now BAE) in Barrow where all the nukes get built. They used to be launched from a conventional (slipway) berth and when the first hunter-killer was built (before my time!), they had no data. So it sailed down the ways like greased lightning straight onto the sandbank opposite where it sat for 12 hours waiting for a tug to pull it off. It was close enough to Walney Island that small boys waded out on the beach and were pinging pebbles off the sub hull. My coworkers said there were "hairy-a**ed marines" patrolling the deck of the sub trying to shoo the small boys away and clearly annoyed that they weren't allowed to use their rifles on them - they were soft as clarts, back then, you know.
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clarts ? :-X
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A clart, another name for a smallish, brownish residue pile left by an animal such as a cow. But then I am of Oxfordshire/Gloustershire agrictural extraction.... ;D
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Thats a pat!
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Officially a pat is what you have in the early stages of butter making. Remind me to check any sandwhichs you offer me VERY carefully in future.... ;) Mind you, I suppose they do both come from more or less the same end.... ;D
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I'm not from there, but surely everyone knows "Thar's a mucky clart", meaning "You're a right sluberdegullion". ;D
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this sites too clever for me ;D
meant to ask bob exactly what is an essex vernacular - is it a microcar, or an injin of some sort . if you have one as you say lets see it !! i have a feeling you are just bragging ;)
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This is an Essex Car. :) being the Chalenger model rather than the Vernacular . They also did a Super Six... Bob, is yours a Super Six or is it just gossip..... ;)
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All joking aside I have always like these cars even though they are American! They used to have one at the Lakeland Motor museum , a right hand drive model and I always admired the quality. Funny Richard should mention injuns, I have a very interesting one stripped down on the bench right now, a small Guzzi two stroke with a very clever inlet port system, the crank shaft is hollow and has a cut away so as it rotates it links the inlet manifold with the crank housing thus doing away with the rather inefficient transfer porting of usual strokers. Damned clever these Italians!
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They used to have one at the Lakeland Motor museum
Went past it yesterday, and many other times over the last 18 months or so, but never had time to visit. It is ironic and frustrating when work pays you to go to interesting places but gives you too little time to explore them.
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Excuse me for getting back to the topic of the new Peels. Since I've seen pictures of them in front of Ripley's Museums, I'd have to say that they have at least started delivering their contracted quota as Jim mentioned earlier.
But I am wondrous as to why they have not responded to 2 separate inquires from myself regarding wheel and tire sizes and whether they are running hydraulic or manual brakes/ any other suspension mods from the originals. They clearly have much bigger (too big looking) wheels and tires than the originals, and it is hard to imagine not using hydraulic brakes in this day and age.
I also have a selfish, already mentioned reason for my interest as Andy Carter is building parts for a Trident body and metal kit that I have ordered presently, and I am open to the possibilities of improving on the original's parameters as long as it does not violate my own aesthetics of what a period correct Peel Trident could have looked like.
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Chum has just been to test the cars. They are electric and rely on the inertia damping effect of the motor for brakes, therefore no brakes are supplied in the form of a brake on the wheels. In maneuvering the car he let it slip backward on a slope of the underground car park as seen in the official video and it nearly turned over so I would suggest the suspension is not modified in any way that might be usefull to your idealised Peel over the original underpinnings Andy might be able to offer. These new Peels are aimed at a pretty narrow market I think and they need some development to successfully break out of that bracket of use (or uselessness dependant on your viewpoint). The original versions are likewise limited by their engineering. I am not sure the reality of a daily Peel is really feasible without significantly compromising the entire concept of the car. It is what it is, one of those successfully negotiated cul de sacs of design that had no real market like the Sinclear C5, as well as quite a few Microcars etc. That is why we love them. Trouble with love is it can become infatuation and judgement can be lost. I fear many modified Peels are going to fall into this category with rather mixed outcomes most of which are bad. It has to be the real thing or move on to another love for me I think.
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Are we to assume that they will not be road legal then?
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The Peel mafia agrees, they are not road legal. Neither in the UK nor in Germany ! :o
But even a genuine Peel is not easy to legalize in Germany. All i have to do is, to use a Moped trader plate.
This is ALMOST legal ;D
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They are electric and rely on the inertia damping effect of the motor for brakes, therefore no brakes are supplied in the form of a brake on the wheels.
These "new" Peels as they stand, if that info is correct, are therefore almost certainly not legal for UK highway use, as all road-going vehicles, including electric vehicles, require at least two, independent means of braking, one of which at least has to be mechanical & direct-acting on either a wheel or the transmission. It's all there in the Construction & Use regulations. I did hear something that they were trying to take advantage of Class 3 (8mph) mobility scooter regulations, but again it would fail misarably on that too, for the same braking regulations apply and also, anything alluding to mobility regulations may only officially be driven by a person with a disability.
So what are they actully making? A large garden runaround is what the evidence seems to point at. For my money I'll be going elsewhere... (The Mafia knows what I mean, doesn't it Ferdi) ;)
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This makes the whole thing completely lame! Rather reinforces my first impression of the two 'entrepreneurs' when I saw them on Dragons den, I wonder if James Khan knew he was investing in nothing other than a kiddies toy for running around the garden?
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[ So what are they actully making? A large garden runaround is what the evidence seems to point at. For my money I'll be going elsewhere... (The Mafia knows what I mean, doesn't it Ferdi) ;)
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For sure the Peel mafia knows Mr. Stu
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I believe braking using the electric motor would be legal. Unigate used it for years. If it is arranged well it is actually a very powerfull retardation. Means a chunky boy on the rear wheel. Root has quoted the book definition but it is not quite the catch all it sounds. Messerschmitts do not have two ways to brake. It has a foot brake with a handbrake lock on it. That is one brake method really isn't it, since the cable or shoe mech is the most likely bit to fail. Pigging scary when a cable fails at 40 to, I can tell you! Land Rover has only one braking method in motion as the handbrake clamps on the propshaft. Apply that at 60 mph and you go upside down or at least break the drive system. I recall James Matthews (now paints F1 Racing cars) doing just that down the farm into a muck heep attempting a handbrake turn. Very funny but potentially dangerous. Therefore there would only need to be a parking brake. That is pretty simple to fix up on something that does about 10-15 miles an hour. The cars they have as demo vehicles are as supplied to Ripley who I do not, I think, intend to run them other than as advertising their business. So I would not jump to conclusions.
A second issue is if the car with the performance currently available is something you would want to drive on a public road. I think not. However given, say, 20 orders for a road going version at £12,500 each I would humbly suggest the budget is present to do some modifications to the design to create a fully spec version that could take to the road with some credability. That is good business sense if you can pull it off. Why invest your own money on development if you do not know there is a market. I believe three wheelers now require a rear brake on a trailing wheel, so that can be a shoe hand brake from a scooter or something. The electric motor can do the driving brake. It maybe that there will be a requirement to have the handbrake on the two front wheel if the rear is providing the driving brake. One would need to consult the bible. Personally I would not go down that route but I am not making the cars.
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Al- Great insights as usual, and not needing decoding which is unusual. Thanks for both.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT SIZE WHEELS AND TIRES THE NEW PEELS ARE USING???
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Nowadays, if you want to make a one-off vehicle yourself or start low volume production (<300/yr), the vehicle will need to pass IVA - Individual Vehicle Approval. See IVA technical requirements (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.s=sc&r.l4=1081996775&r.l1=1081597476&r.lc=en&r.l3=1084755856&r.l2=1082103262&r.i=1081996837&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083&r.t=RESOURCES) if you want to scare yourself. Passing an MoT test is something for babies and invalids, by comparison.
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I have been told the parameters are simpler if the vehicle is to comply with bike/moped/quad legislation. Of course that is size, cc and speed restricted, which would be why it is simpler. This may not be what some potential owners are thinking of - Peel GTi or what have you - burn baby burn! I have to say if you go for the bike/moped/quad option building an accurate replica that could gain Historic Registration is actually probably easier given that your end product is not going to be greatly better than the original Peel! I worked out two ways to register this but, of course, I cannot tell you how to as I have to preserve site integrity and my route to registration should I need it. I assume exported cars will normally require a British ID to gain registration in there new country. This can be date sensitive as well. So this accreditation issue is something of a drag.
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When I made my Drum Car I looked a little into the regulations and designed it to conform (vaguely!) to the rules governing Electric Bicycles and Tri-cycles. Despite having Horizontally Opposed Twin electric motors, its power is modest, and down-geared, so that it cannot get up to the 18 kph limit, (except when going down steps!).
Although it differs somewhat form electric bikes, if I ever do get stopped by the Police I can demonstrate that its performance is well within legal limits. This means that it is effectively legal on roads, pavements, parks, civic centres, supermarkets and shops, all of which it HAS driven in!
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Looks like they just intended to create a museum piece for the new Peels
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In what way are Segways band from public use, other than they fall off cliffs? Surely they are a sort of electric moped. Mind you screwing number plate on your 'arris would bring the tears to your eyes. They look very interesting but once again a bit expensive to rush off and buy.